Why are we not talking about

[Moniker]

Ah, I was going to bring up Nordic countries too. Easily the best model for systems that work and people who stay involved on a local level while policing themselves.

Economic inequality creates a focus on class warfare, which will always exist in a capitalist society. That's the driving engine of capitalism actually. I don't have what my neighbor has, how can I make enough money to keep up or get ahead? Stepping on others along the way for personal benefit/profit.

Also, Cards Against Humanity sold literal pieces of shit on black friday, and around $30,000 people spent money knowing that what they were buying was a cow turd. This is the country we live in...

Anyway, back to the current events. We should all be able to agree that a cop shooting an unarmed person is wrong. Even back in the day they atleast got a chance at a proper duel.

[The Great Father]

The USA does not have any socialists or real leftists in power, so I don't know what you're referring to there. I do agree the general public knows nothing about policy, but that's OK. It's the job of people who pay attention to spread knowledge through every day conversations and share life experiences, etc.

You are sorely, sorely mistaken. Notice how the policies are trying to make the upper, upper middle and middle class and even the lower middle class pay for entitlements for the poor. Entitlements, not earned benefits. Notice how the so-called leadership have engaged in divide and conquer tactics to maintain power. Notice how a blatantly evil man in Al Sharpton is rising to power through propaganda aimed at the least intelligent, those angry and uninformed who just want someone else to blame for their misfortunes.

You clearly have little idea of what is really going on.

[ShaDoWLesS]

You are sorely, sorely mistaken. Notice how the policies are trying to make the upper, upper middle and middle class and even the lower middle class pay for entitlements for the poor. Entitlements, not earned benefits. Notice how the so-called leadership have engaged in divide and conquer tactics to maintain power. Notice how a blatantly evil man in Al Sharpton is rising to power through propaganda aimed at the least intelligent, those angry and uninformed who just want someone else to blame for their misfortunes.

You clearly have little idea of what is really going on.

In what way are the upper, upper middle class (as you call it) and the middle class in general paying for entitlements for low income people? Our taxes go to a variety of things, almost none of the budget goes helping the poor. We give money to corporations from tax cuts, we give the military an unlimited budget, and to the wealthiest Americans by having eliminated the estate tax.

Our leadership definitely is in the tank for corporations and the powerful elite. The main political parties don't do anything for average people, mainly because of how much money we have infecting our election cycles. Legalized bribery basically. Al Sharpton isn't evil, he is just a dumb front man for the cameras. Dr. Cornel West is my preference when looking for a true civil rights icon.

[The Great Father]

Al Sharpton is evil, he is deliberately causing civil unrest for his own gain. The family of the man shot in the stairwell by a rookie cop turned his presence down, stating that he

a) invited himself to do the eulogy
b) never made any intention of paying for any of the funeral
c) has a well-known reputation for causing raucousness when mourning should be the mood

He makes money off of inciting racial tension and riots, which actually hurt the black community. And he is intelligent enough to market his propaganda to the least intelligent of his target focus group, so he is evil not dumb.

[ShaDoWLesS]

Al Sharpton is evil, he is deliberately causing civil unrest for his own gain. The family of the man shot in the stairwell by a rookie cop turned his presence down, stating that he

a) invited himself to do the eulogy
b) never made any intention of paying for any of the funeral
c) has a well-known reputation for causing raucousness when mourning should be the mood

He makes money off of inciting racial tension and riots, which actually hurt the black community. And he is intelligent enough to market his propaganda to the least intelligent of his target focus group, so he is evil not dumb.

You do make some good points about him, but honestly I think you are giving him too much credit. Most of the younger generation of protesters regard him as a joke and not very helpful to what actually needs to be done.

[The Great Father]

You do make some good points about him, but honestly I think you are giving him too much credit. Most of the younger generation of protesters regard him as a joke and not very helpful to what actually needs to be done.

Clearly he has engaged masses of those who think it is a godsend that they can blame everything and everyone but themselves for their misfortunes. Like if I lose a job for breaking a co-workers jaw, who is really at fault: the coworker for being a bitch and the boss for being on the other guy's side and the company for having something out for me from the get go and corperate america and "the man" plotting to keep me down.... or me for establishing myself as a threat to that work environment?

Answer: the second part. But most of the Al's Apes would pick option one, anything to not have to blame themselves. The Era of Entitlement disgusts me.

[Ryan]

Anyway, back to the current events. We should all be able to agree that a cop shooting an unarmed person is wrong. Even back in the day they atleast got a chance at a proper duel.

I disagree. Just because someone is unarmed, that doesn't automatically mean they're not a threat.

If an officer is fist fighting with a subject, and is on the losing end, and feels they may be severely hurt, maimed or killed in the fight, they're legally justified to shoot.

Now, that man is unarmed, but does that mean he isn't a threat? What about people with martial arts experience, or even ex-military who have extensive combatives training? If they go off the deep end, they know how to kill you with their hands. Or at least render you unconscious.

"Unarmed" is a term portrayed by the media as meaning innocent, and that just isn't always the case.

[Moniker]

I disagree. Just because someone is unarmed, that doesn't automatically mean they're not a threat.

If an officer is fist fighting with a subject, and is on the losing end, and feels they may be severely hurt, maimed or killed in the fight, they're legally justified to shoot.

Now, that man is unarmed, but does that mean he isn't a threat? What about people with martial arts experience, or even ex-military who have extensive combatives training? If they go off the deep end, they know how to kill you with their hands. Or at least render you unconscious.

"Unarmed" is a term portrayed by the media as meaning innocent, and that just isn't always the case.

Watching too many movies dude... what percentage of Americans are actual proficient in hand to hand TRAINED combat? And whatever that minuscule percentage is, they are waaaay more apt to side with police if they have military training or have been disciplined in martial arts (unless they're a fucking ninja for a crime syndicate?).

NO ONE who is unarmed should pose a threat to where a cop would need to fear for his/her life. They have the upper hand with batons, tasers, and guns. Not never should an officer "need" to unload 14 rounds into a man who was sleeping on a park bench and got agitated when we was harassed by a cop, as was the case in Milwaukee. When was the last time you heard of a murder where someone killed another person with their bare hands?

Walking away from cops, with or without your hands up (depending on what reports you believe) is innocent. Standing on a sidewalk in NY is innocent. Walking up a flight of stairs in a project building is innocent. Sleeping on a bench is innocent. Being on the ground on a subway platform in the Bay is innocent. Should I continue... because the list is crazy long.

[Ryan]

My examples may have been extreme, but the fact remains, not everyone who is "unarmed" is innocent, as the media would have you believe.

Half the videos on Worldstar involve dudes fighting, one getting knocked out while the other continued to punch and kick/stomp their face in. You do realize how easy it is to kill someone like that, right? Regardless of training, experience, etc. And if all the fight videos on the Internet have taught me anything, it's that NO ONE fights fair and very few people have any type of restraint in those situations.

If I'm a cop, and I feel myself getting my ass whooped (as was the case in Ferguson as far as we know) all those videos will come to mind. And the fact that I have a family to go home to. You think I'm just gonna take that chance? Nah. Not today. Not ever. And I wouldn't expect a cop (or anyone lawfully carrying a weapon) in the same situation to do that.

You act is if the cops are jus walking around capping dudes for no reason. And that's not the case.

Feel free to go on with your examples, because for every one of yours I could find 2 that show some ghetto scumbag pulling weapons or shooting at officers which resulted in their brains on the pavement.

The thing I hate most about this new liberal America is how people think criminals are entitled to fair treatment. Be a productive member of society or get the fuck out.

That last statement excludes the small percentage of criminals who have actually been rehabilitated and become positive members of society.

[Moniker]

My examples may have been extreme, but the fact remains, not everyone who is "unarmed" is innocent, as the media would have you believe.

Half the videos on Worldstar involve dudes fighting, one getting knocked out while the other continued to punch and kick/stomp their face in. You do realize how easy it is to kill someone like that, right? Regardless of training, experience, etc. And if all the fight videos on the Internet have taught me anything, it's that NO ONE fights fair and very few people have any type of restraint in those situations.

If I'm a cop, and I feel myself getting my ass whooped (as was the case in Ferguson as far as we know) all those videos will come to mind. And the fact that I have a family to go home to. You think I'm just gonna take that chance? Nah. Not today. Not ever. And I wouldn't expect a cop (or anyone lawfully carrying a weapon) in the same situation to do that.

You act is if the cops are jus walking around capping dudes for no reason. And that's not the case.

Feel free to go on with your examples, because for every one of yours I could find 2 that show some ghetto scumbag pulling weapons or shooting at officers which resulted in their brains on the pavement.

The thing I hate most about this new liberal America is how people think criminals are entitled to fair treatment. Be a productive member of society or get the fuck out.

That last statement excludes the small percentage of criminals who have actually been rehabilitated and become positive members of society.

Which cases, specifically, has someone been 'unarmed' but not innocent? You paint with a broad brush while I am talking about actual situations. It's easy to generalize, and that usually means there's a lack of understanding of the finite details involved.

So you're saying just because our culture is one that likes watching entertainment and trained fighters like UFC, Wrestling, etc. that the average American is now able to go apeshit on a cop and take them down unarmed? You're still living in a non-existence threat-down courtesy of Fox news, the #1 fear mongerers. Cops receive superior training (one would think) than that of a normal citizen. Yea there may be some guys who are jacked but that doesn't mean they can fight. And again, UNARMED. It's not even like bringing a knife to a gunfight, it's bringing fists. We're not a country of Jackie Chan's man. Who would you think has the advantage at all times? The guy with the gun and the free pass to shot to kill.

This is the problem that I've been trying to address. Cops initial reaction now is defense. They are public SERVANTS. They take an oath to serve and protect. And yes, that means the same citizen they may be trying to handcuff who has equal rights as them regardless of any criminal status. Look at how many cops are or have done criminal shit in the past or have a wide range of psychological issues. They are not above civilians, but that is sure as shit how they act. Being concerned with you and yours is fine, but guess what, that's a war mentality. To do whatever it takes to make it home that night to your family and only worry about your own (meaning other cops). That is a military mindset, not conducive of serving a community because you're putting yourself over the people you are suppose to be protecting. That included protecting people form themselves and their own destructive behavior.

In Ferguson, whatever happened in the initial conflict, the man was unarmed and the officer was in his vehicle. Getting punched through a window? Roll up the window. Guy reaching into your car? Drive away. You're in a moving object. To then chase down a man who ran away and execute that person is vengeful, disturbing, and murder.

Oh no doubt there are some horrible people in this country. It takes a village to raise a villain. Our culture that celebrates violence, and enables, is certainly going to breed some deranged motherfuckers who think life is a video game and go shoot up a school or shoot at a cop. That's not what this conversation is about. That's another conversation entirely. But keep in mind the number of cops who have been shot and killed on duty vs. the number of civilians who have been shot and killed by cops. It's on some 1:20 type ratio.

How are criminals not entitled to fair treatment and due process of LAW? That is democracy. That's a massively ignorant comment and the type of thinking that gets us things like Guantanamo.

Cops have and do "cap" people for no reason. I know it's not a fun thing to understand or realize but it is what happens. Cops have even gone undercover in some of the recent protests to try to instigate riots so they'd be justified in using force against peaceful protesters and another 18 yr old black male is now dead because of it.

[The Great Father]

1) In Ferguson, whatever happened in the initial conflict, the man was unarmed and the officer was in his vehicle. Getting punched through a window? Roll up the window. Guy reaching into your car? Drive away. You're in a moving object. To then chase down a man who ran away and execute that person is vengeful, disturbing, and murder.

2) Oh no doubt there are some horrible people in this country. It takes a village to raise a villain. Our culture that celebrates violence, and enables, is certainly going to breed some deranged motherfuckers who think life is a video game and go shoot up a school or shoot at a cop. That's not what this conversation is about. That's another conversation entirely. But keep in mind the number of cops who have been shot and killed on duty vs. the number of civilians who have been shot and killed by cops. It's on some 1:20 type ratio.

3) How are criminals not entitled to fair treatment and due process of LAW? That is democracy. That's a massively ignorant comment and the type of thinking that gets us things like Guantanamo.

1) The kid was a god damned degenerate and a criminal. Assaulting a law enforcement officer is a felony, and trying to go Mortal Kombat on one will lead to one result- suicide by cop.

2) This is because most people aren't stupid enough to go killing those who are trained and certified to uphold the law and safety of the community. This "statistic" is an invalid sway tactic.

3) IF they do, they do so to scan for legitimate threats as compared to the people who are just there to be hippies.

BONUS: You must get your information from MSNBC, you're an absolute liberal, which is several steps below idiot on the scale of common sense and applicable intelligence. And your "another 18 year old black male" PULLED A FUCKING GUN AT A GOD DAMNED POLICE OFFICER, you shit for brains leftist. He was absolutely nothing but a threat to everyone around him and needed to be neutralized. Want proof? There was video. And innocent people damn sure don't assault officers of the law who are out on patrol.

I bet you think Al Sharpton and Bill DiBlasio and Eric Holder are good guys, don't you?

[Ryan]

Great Faja beat me to it.

[Moniker]

1) The kid was a god damned degenerate and a criminal. Assaulting a law enforcement officer is a felony, and trying to go Mortal Kombat on one will lead to one result- suicide by cop.

2) This is because most people aren't stupid enough to go killing those who are trained and certified to uphold the law and safety of the community. This "statistic" is an invalid sway tactic.

3) IF they do, they do so to scan for legitimate threats as compared to the people who are just there to be hippies.

BONUS: You must get your information from MSNBC, you're an absolute liberal, which is several steps below idiot on the scale of common sense and applicable intelligence. And your "another 18 year old black male" PULLED A FUCKING GUN AND SHOT AT A GOD DAMNED POLICE OFFICER, you shit for brains leftist. He was absolutely nothing but a threat to everyone around him and needed to be neutralized. Want proof? There was video. And innocent people damn sure don't assault officers of the law who are out on patrol.

I bet you think Al Sharpton and Bill DiBlasio and Eric Holder are good guys, don't you?

1) So criminal is defined by stealing some cigarettes now? That's pretty small potatoes. I stole some gemstones from a science museum as a kid, guess I'm a criminal. He stole some shit from a convenience store unarmed. That's a death sentence now? There are plenty of occurrences of people resisting arrest that don't end in the death of the civilian. What happened in Ferguson did not need to take place. Regardless of a man assaulting an officer. That doesn't give him the right or liberty to shoot at will when there were other methods that were not used and policies in place that were ignored. No backup. No taser. The guy stole something of little to no value and he gets chased down and shot? Nah, fuck that. This was a prime example of an egotistical law enforcer who wanted to exercise his power on a non-threat because the guy came at him. I could also point out how attacking a cop is a felony while civilians attacking each other isn't, but you wouldn't hear it. Cops get preferential treatment. That is reality. They should not be above the law or treated any differently.

2) Exactly my point. Ryan's acting like everyone want to go attack police. Which is not the case in the majority of the situations presented. They were already a non-threat or subdued by the time they were executed.

3) False. They are planted therr to instigate and lead the crowd in a direction favorable to police and their interests. Shit, even reporters covering the event have tried to instigate peaceful protests to get 'better coverage' or a 'better story'. This happened out west, two undercover cops were seen breaking windows as part of a 'riot' and then the next night tried to make arrests. Police department paying for the damage they did to whoever's storefront that was? Doubt it. And then corporate news media will show footage of said undercover cops and paint a picture of violence and looting to justify the excessive police force on protesters. Don't be so naive.

That's funny. I don't categorize myself as liberal. It's a liberal viewpoint to be concerned about the growing overreach of an imperialist government that kills it's own citizens with no accountability? I thought republican Rush Limbaugh and Hannity supporters were supposed to be all about small government? Not the militarization of police. I guess they just support white people who have guns and treat them as heroes for standing off against imminent domain and openly saying they will fire on police if they trespass, or bring their assault rifles to fast food chains for God knows what purpose instead of unarmed and low-income black males. What are you going to do when it's not just people of color they're coming for and harassing? Still going to support an unjust law enforcement system then?

GTFO with Sharpton and the rest. Never cared to listen to a word they've said and never will.

[Wordz AhGod.]

Wow.. fuck is going on here?

[The Great Father]

1) So criminal is defined by stealing some cigarettes now? That's pretty small potatoes. I stole some gemstones from a science museum as a kid, guess I'm a criminal. He stole some shit from a convenience store unarmed. That's a death sentence now? There are plenty of occurrences of people resisting arrest that don't end in the death of the civilian. What happened in Ferguson did not need to take place. Regardless of a man assaulting an officer. That doesn't give him the right or liberty to shoot at will when there were other methods that were not used and policies in place that were ignored. No backup. No taser. The guy stole something of little to no value and he gets chased down and shot? Nah, fuck that. This was a prime example of an egotistical law enforcer who wanted to exercise his power on a non-threat because the guy came at him. I could also point out how attacking a cop is a felony while civilians attacking each other isn't, but you wouldn't hear it. Cops get preferential treatment. That is reality. They should not be above the law or treated any differently.

2) Exactly my point. Ryan's acting like everyone want to go attack police. Which is not the case in the majority of the situations presented. They were already a non-threat or subdued by the time they were executed.

3) False. They are planted therr to instigate and lead the crowd in a direction favorable to police and their interests. Shit, even reporters covering the event have tried to instigate peaceful protests to get 'better coverage' or a 'better story'. This happened out west, two undercover cops were seen breaking windows as part of a 'riot' and then the next night tried to make arrests. Police department paying for the damage they did to whoever's storefront that was? Doubt it. And then corporate news media will show footage of said undercover cops and paint a picture of violence and looting to justify the excessive police force on protesters. Don't be so naive.

That's funny. I don't categorize myself as liberal. It's a liberal viewpoint to be concerned about the growing overreach of an imperialist government that kills it's own citizens with no accountability? I thought republican Rush Limbaugh and Hannity supporters were supposed to be all about small government? Not the militarization of police. I guess they just support white people who have guns and treat them as heroes for standing off against imminent domain and openly saying they will fire on police if they trespass, or bring their assault rifles to fast food chains for God knows what purpose instead of unarmed and low-income black males. What are you going to do when it's not just people of color they're coming for and harassing? Still going to support an unjust law enforcement system then?

GTFO with Sharpton and the rest. Never cared to listen to a word they've said and never will.

1) If you're breaking the law by definition you're a criminal. And if you get caught committing ANY crime, don't resist arrest. Don't do the crime unless you accept that there are consequences for being caught. Michael Brown would not stop his assault on the police officer, which is a violent felony. A person who would do such an act is too dangerous to be allotted the same treatment as someone who kicked a hot dog vendor in the shin or who punched some random guy a few times. Your argument is invalid.

2) Police are hired to protect the community. There is strong anti-police sentiments going around that are being fueled by degenerates who hold prominent positions in society and government such as DiBlasio, Holder, and Sharpton. Mob mentality is proven to lower the collective IQ, and as common sense dictates there's always those who take it too far. It's bad enough that the uneducated are being led like sheep, but when figure of authority basically give what the ignorant uneducated could construe as the green light to harm officers of the law there will be chaos. Your argument is invalid.

3) I have studied law and what you are suggesting is illegal and not a used tactic. Internal Affairs would be aware of such activities and never allow it to take place, but having undercover cops at riots to determine who is there just to chant and who there are intending to cause harm is legal and a necessary part of communal safety to prevent assholes like Antonio Martin and that New York nutjob faggot from shedding actual innocent blood. Your argument is invalid.

BONUS- You're clearly leaning to the left and get your information from CNN and MSNBC. You know, the guys who made a major profit off of making criminals seem like innocent victims and the brave men and women who put their lives on the line to keep American citizens safe from domestic terrorism look like the bad guys... you're clearly their bitch. And if you think I haven't been targeted in my life by police in my day you're an assuming idiot (which you've already proven to be), as I've gotten my share of beating from cops. But why did I get said beatings? Because I had committed a crime and was being a disrespectful punk to them. Those two factors negate my right to be treated as an upright citizen for that moment as I likely presented myself as a potential danger to their well-being. And sucks for me but I had it coming. And one of the cops who beat me was black and called me on multiple occasions a "stupid whitey". It goes in all directions, young lady. Don't want to get targeted by the police, don't portray yourself as someone who breaks the law and most importantly don't break the fucking law period, no matter how "small".

Holy shit, you're a narrow idiot. People like you are bringing levels of racism from all sides back to where it was in the 1950s, and all based on assumptions spoon fed to you by panic-mongerers who make money to do so.