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Thread: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

  1. #1
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    Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle5705331.ece


    The Vatican has admitted that Charles Darwin was on the right track when he claimed that Man descended from apes.

    A leading official declared yesterday that Darwin’s theory of evolution was compatible with Christian faith, and could even be traced to St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas. “In fact, what we mean by evolution is the world as created by God,” said Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture. The Vatican also dealt the final blow to speculation that Pope Benedict XVI might be prepared to endorse the theory of Intelligent Design, whose advocates credit a “higher power” for the complexities of life.

    Organisers of a papal-backed conference next month marking the 150th anniversary of Darwin’s On the Origin of Species said that at first it had even been proposed to ban Intelligent Design from the event, as “poor theology and poor science”. Intelligent Design would be discussed at the fringes of the conference at the Pontifical Gregorian University, but merely as a “cultural phenomenon”, rather than a scientific or theological issue, organisers said.

    The conference is seen as a landmark in relations between faith and science. Three years ago advocates of Intelligent Design seized on the Pope’s reference to an “intelligent project” as proof that he favoured their views.

    Conceding that the Church had been hostile to Darwin because his theory appeared to conflict with the account of creation in Genesis, Archbishop Ravasi argued yesterday that biological evolution and the Christian view of Creation were complementary.

    Marc Leclerc, who teaches natural philosophy at the Gregorian University, said that no scholar could “remain indifferent” to the 200th anniversary of Darwin’s birth tomorrow. There was, however, “no question of celebrating” it.

    The Vatican would “take the measure of an event, which has left its mark for ever on the history of science and has influenced the way we understand our humanity”. The “time has come for a rigorous and objective valuation” of Darwin by the Church, he said.

    Professor Leclerc said that too many opponents of Darwin – above all Creationists – had mistakenly claimed that his theories were “totally incompatible with a religious vision of reality”, as did proponents of Intelligent Design.

    Darwin’s theories had never been formally condemned by the Roman Catholic Church, Monsignor Ravasi insisted. His rehabilitation had begun as long ago as 1950, when Pius XII described evolution as a valid scientific approach to the development of humans. In 1996 John Paul II said that it was “more than a hypothesis”.

    Father Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti, Professor of Theology at the Pontifical Santa Croce University in Rome, said that Darwin had been anticipated by St Augustine of Hippo. The 4th-century theologian had “never heard the term evolution, but knew that big fish eat smaller fish” and that forms of life had been transformed “slowly over time”. Aquinas had made similar observations in the Middle Ages, he added.

    He said it was time that theologians as well as scientists grappled with the mysteries of genetic codes and “whether the diversification of life forms is the result of competition or cooperation between species”. As for the origins of Man, although we shared 97 per cent of our “genetic inheritance” with apes, the remaining 3 per cent “is what makes us unique”, including religion.

    “I maintain that the idea of evolution has a place in Christian theology,” Professor Tanzella-Nitti added.

    Creationism remains powerful in the US, however, notably among Protestants, and its followers object to evolution being taught in state schools.

    The Church of England is seeking to bring Darwin back into the fold with a page on its website paying tribute to his “forgotten” work in his local parish, to illustrate how science and Church need not be at odds. Several pages celebrate Darwin’s “significant scientific progress” to mark his bicentenary and also the 150th anniversary of On the Origin of Species.

    The Church wants to correct the impression that Darwin’s relationship with Anglicanism was contentious. The Anglican Church as a whole did not condemn Darwin or his beliefs. It says that although he lost his faith, he did not become antiChurch or antireligious.

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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    Of course all the early Christian writings suddenly always pointed to this being the case.

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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    I would like to see what part of the bible says something that supports the theory of man evolving from apes.

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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    Lol they're pathetic.

    Can't fight the tide anymore, so figure out a way not to only join the winning side, but act like your bullshit was a part of it from the start.

    Of course Darwin was right, the fuck? Whoever actualy thinks Jesus made people out of clay and mud is an idiot.

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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    I was taught evolution in Catholic school years ago. They've been teaching evolution in catholic school at least since my parents were in school. Catholics aren't creationists lol. Creationism is fuckin retarded.

    This isn't a milestone because they FINALLY believe in evolution. It's a milestone because they're completely denouncing creationism as a scientific or even a theological theory. Creationism conflicts with what we know about the bible.
    Last edited by Opie M.; February 21st, 2009 at 05:46 AM

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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    Quote Originally Posted by ...Opey... View Post
    I was taught evolution in Catholic school years ago. They've been teaching evolution in catholic school at least since my parents were in school. Catholics aren't creationists lol. Creationism is fuckin retarded.

    This isn't a milestone because they FINALLY believe in evolution. It's a milestone because they're completely denouncing creationism as a scientific or even a theological theory. Creationism conflicts with what we know about the bible.
    What... so Genesis is a metaphor?
    What about John 1:1 onwards?
    "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God, he was with God in the beginning.Through him all things were made, and without him, nothing was made that has been made. (Referring to Jesus)"
    You're going to tell me evolution fits with that?
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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    How does that have anything to do with evolution? lmao

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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    It has nothing to do with evolution...
    To my mind it fits with creationism...
    And you say creationism conflicts with what we know about the bible...
    I'm interested to know how you can say that when so much of the bible endorses or at least points towards creationism over evolution...
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    That Shit Cray Chris Black's Avatar
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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    This is stupid.

    You know what's always been funny about scriptures to me? In most literature, when time passes, the people who study it go back to what the people thought of the literature when it was written. With scripture, it's the opposite. As time passes, people think they understand it better/differently than the people who wrote in and were around when it was written. That's always been funny to me.
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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    Yeah Chris that's exactly what's been happening to the Catholic church recently...
    First they want to tell me purgatory was never a Catholic doctrine... and now they want to adopt evolution as the biblical theory of creation...
    I'm like wtf...
    At least other denominations aren't hypocritically stabbing themselves in the face...
    Just gotta remember this is solely Catholic and not agreed to by the majority of the rest of Christendom.
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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    Quote Originally Posted by -Paradox- View Post
    It has nothing to do with evolution...
    To my mind it fits with creationism...
    And you say creationism conflicts with what we know about the bible...
    I'm interested to know how you can say that when so much of the bible endorses or at least points towards creationism over evolution...
    How exactly does that have to do with any scientific theory of anything?

    Creation conflicts with what we know about the bible because creation is an attempt to treat the bible as 100% literal which it isn't, and it's an attempt to treat the bible as a science book, which it is not.

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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    Quote Originally Posted by -Paradox- View Post
    Yeah Chris that's exactly what's been happening to the Catholic church recently...
    First they want to tell me purgatory was never a Catholic doctrine... and now they want to adopt evolution as the biblical theory of creation...
    I'm like wtf...
    At least other denominations aren't hypocritically stabbing themselves in the face...
    Just gotta remember this is solely Catholic and not agreed to by the majority of the rest of Christendom.
    Yea, Chris. Remember that only Catholics have been supporting evolution and now believe so whole-heartedly in the evidence that they're denouncing all other theories that are out there. Only Catholics see that creationism is such a fallacy that they need to officially denounce the idea as having no scientific or theological basis.

    That's right Chris. Only Catholics don't support the retarded nonsense that is creationism.

    They're also the only christians to believe that you don't just get a pass into heaven for saying you believe in Jesus. They're the only ones that believe that you actually have to do good things and be a good person to have a good afterlife.

    Catholics are CRAAAAAAZY!!!! lmao

    BTW... whoever told you this...
    First they want to tell me purgatory was never a Catholic doctrine...
    has no idea what they're saying.
    Last edited by Opie M.; February 21st, 2009 at 09:19 AM

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    *Obligatory title brag* Dox Phonic's Avatar
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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    Quote Originally Posted by ...Opey... View Post
    How exactly does that have to do with any scientific theory of anything?

    Creation conflicts with what we know about the bible because creation is an attempt to treat the bible as 100% literal which it isn't, and it's an attempt to treat the bible as a science book, which it is not.
    So where do you draw the line on the extent to which the bible literally?
    The bible isn't a science book... But I would like to think it's 100% literal.
    Otherwise my religion is kinda screwed ya noe?
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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    It's not really my problem that your religion is screwy for taking the bible literally lol

    I don't know what you want me to tell you lol

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    *Obligatory title brag* Dox Phonic's Avatar
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    Re: Vatican Says Darwin Was Right

    Quote Originally Posted by ...Opey... View Post
    Yea, Chris. Remember that only Catholics have been supporting evolution and now believe so whole-heartedly in the evidence that they're denouncing all other theories that are out there. Only Catholics see that creationism is such a fallacy that they need to officially denounce the idea as having no scientific or theological basis.

    That's right Chris. Only Catholics don't support the retarded nonsense that is creationism.

    They're also the only christians to believe that you don't just get a pass into heaven for saying you believe in Jesus. They're the only ones that believe that you actually have to do good things and be a good person to have a good afterlife.

    Catholics are CRAAAAAAZY!!!! lmao

    BTW... whoever told you this...

    has no idea what they're saying.
    Opey do you have to launch into every argument being so patronising?
    It's like you just have a desperate need to unload viciously on whoever disagrees with you whenever they do it about whatever they're talking about. We could just discuss it... but your agro just has to start warring when we're probably partially saying the same thing...

    Let me start out by saying your sarcasm was so overdone I'm not even sure if we disagree on anything.

    Why the hell am I doing this...

    I'm agreein with Chris...

    And I am right about the Catholic church denouncing purgatory after in once being a very active part of the denomination.

    I am saying that only Catholicism and a small minority of the rest of Christendom (to my understanding) Now think evolution is biblically verifiable... and even if I am completely wrong about that and the majority is now backing evolution... I don't and neither do any of the Christians I know.

    and wth at

    They're also the only christians to believe that you don't just get a pass into heaven for saying you believe in Jesus. They're the only ones that believe that you actually have to do good things and be a good person to have a good afterlife.
    You saying the afterlife is partially achievable by works?

    Actually I don't know what you were saying...

    I actually agree with everything you posted but it's obvious you were being patronising... so I'm not even sure we agree or disagree...

    Whatever... I hate religious argument...
    Last edited by Dox Phonic; February 21st, 2009 at 09:33 AM
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