Wade
Stockton v. Kidd
Wade
Stockton v. Kidd
I, for one, would take Nash over A.I. Not by a lot, but Nash showed in the playoffs how underrated he is, he came through in the clutch, he makes everybody around him better, the same can't be said of Iverson. He's not the ball hog he once was, but he still needs to pass a lot more. Nash and Iverson are both sub par defenders because of their size. I'd overall take Nash because he is an all around threat. He took the Suns from worst to first in one season.Originally Posted by Fresh Prince
You do prove a strong point. They should both just go do a head to head. I would really like to see the outcome of that. They both bring differant concepts to the game. It would be a good matchup.
Wow...Iverson is a subpar defender...hmm i guess that makes sense considering he is number 3 all time in steals per game...i repeat anyone taking Nash over Iverson is stupid, Iverson is also AI is tied for 3rd All time in points per game...i repeat once more that anyone taking Nash over Iverson is dumb as fuck...1luv.
Laying face down in the mainstream.Po.Ethics.
For you to flat out think that anybody taking Nash over Iverson is stupid. Sure, I'll take Iverson over Nash in a game of two on two on a pick up game on the streets of Philadelphia. But for a 5 on 5 NBA game Nash is better. Which is why he led the NBA in assists, as for Allen's steals, so what? That doesn't measure how good of a defender he is. He's small and is able to force turnovers, but he is not a good cover defender. Have you seen him play? Most of his steals are on unsuspecting players that he isn't even assigned to guard.
The Suns had the second worst record in the West last season, a year later Nash signs and takes the team to the best record in the NBA. I'm not knocking AI, but Nash is a better teammate, he gives the other guys opportunities. Nash shot over 50 percent from the field this season, and his three point percentage was higher than Iverson's field goal percentage (.431 to .424). Nash also has an 89 percent career free throw percentage, to Iverson's 77.
All AI did this year was hog the ball and his team barely made the playoffs. As for being a "dumb fuck" to think Nash is better than Iverson, I believe it was Nash who won the MVP. So who's really the dumb fuck?
i guess i shouldnt have got a iverson jersey.
^Hmmm to compare Nash's one stellar season to one of Iverson's average ones is rather foolish..."so what?" it surprises me that you give the front of knowing soo much about basketball but having the audacity to say "so what?" at Iverson being number 3 all time in spg...And admittedly Nash deserves credit for the Suns' turnaround this season but when you have a player in Amare Stoudamire who averages 30 ppg in the playoffs, it makes your job easier, Iverson has never had that type of help and has still managed to both assert himself as one of the top defensive players statistically and to lead the league in scoring on several occasions. Nash simply had the help, not only having Amare but Marion Joe Johnson and Q Rich as well. Iverson lead all players in ppg in the playoffs this season and also had 10 apg. in the playoffs, making him 2nd among all players, AI was also 5th in spg, while Nash finished 39th. So statistically you cannot even say Nash outperformed Iverson in the playoffs Iverson beat him in almost every key point gaurd stat. This was Nash's season yes, and still Iverson put up regular season numbers that are not far off and playoff numbers that for the most part exceed Nash's so even in Steve's best year you can't say that he is hands down better then Iverson who had (for him)a pretty average year, AI is consistently one of the best gaurds in the league...Nash has only had 1 season where i would place him in the top 5 gaurds in the league, 1luv.
Laying face down in the mainstream.Po.Ethics.
Believe me, don't even test my knowledge of basketball. That's as foolish as trying to question my NFL knowledge.
Yes, steals are important. But you can't measure how good of a defender somebody is by steals. He averages a steal and a half more than Nash did last season, how much of an effect does that one steal have, considering they both play nearly the entire game? The fact is, they're both subpar defenders because of their size, particularly Iverson.
To say that NASH, needed the help, well that's just stupid. He lead the league in assists last season, while scoring points may be the prettiest stat to look at and certainly the most fashionable, how can you just dismiss Nash's assist totals? Assists help the teams production, points help AI's production. Yeah Iverson will always score plenty of points, but that's mainly due to the fact that Iverson shoots more than anybody in history does. This year he lead the league in field goal attempts, and was once again going to lead that category again last year had he stayed healthy. He takes a lot of terrible angles to the basket, and his shooting is hardly money. He wasn't even close to being ranked in the top 50 for FG percentage, while Nash was ranked 20th, which is pretty damn good considering that's a stat dominated by the big men. If Nash wanted to take more shots he would, he just happens to be the most gifted passer in the league and has a knack for finding open teammates.
The Suns have had Stoudamire for a few seasons, he didn't just come out of the woodworks. Nash helped him reach his full potential this season, everybody on that team put up good numbers. They got to where they were because of Nash, it sure as hell wasn't Quentin Richardson.
Nash is plenty capable of becoming a one man show, he's shown that throughout his career. He singlehandedly destroyed Dallas in the playoffs. But for the most part he isn't that type of player. The sooner you accept that and stop bringing PPG into the equation the better. You can't measure the intangibles of Steve Nash.
A.I. will get his props, deserved as they are, for being one of the best one man shows in the NBA. But when a one man show wins an NBA championship, or consistently gets his team farther than the first round, then we'll talk. Nash's supporting cast did what last season? Become one of the worst teams in the league? It's no coincidence that Nash teamed up with the Suns and all of a sudden they had the best record in the NBA. I don't think one player is hands down better than the other. I've seen both play a lot. Iverson is truly an excellent player, I've seen him take over more games than Nash by a long shot. Nash has been great his whole career, he just recently got noticed as being a true star in Phoenix. Numbers don't tell the story with this guy, except one, assists. He is so unselfish with the ball, he finds his teammates with the ball that are in good position to shoot, often wide open. When he shoots, he is money. And he's also a great three point shooter.
I don't think anybody is wrong for picking either Nash or Iverson. Personally, I'll take Nash because of all the mismatches he exploits, his clutch ability, and his unselfishness. Statistically, he is not the best. But I could care less about stats. They don't always tell the story, especially not in this instance.
Ugh...i dont understand how anyone can say stats are not always the best indicator. fga regardless...only Wilt Chamberlain and Jordan have higher ppg averages then Iverson, if u want to talk playoffs again, Iverson lead his bruised and battered Sixers to the finals almost single handedly with the "reliable" help of Aaron Mckie. Nash spearheads the best record in the west only to lose in the Western conference finals...and the sad thing is that you would've been hard pressed to find any analysts willing to pick the Suns over the nore complete and more talented Spurs, you like to talk about how Nash improved the play of those around him, but Amare is a 3 year player whose numbers have shown great incline every year he's been in the league, no other player had a stand-out or breakthrough year really, Joe Johnson and Q slightly upped stats but for the most part the 2 factors in the Suns' domination is Amare's NATURAL progression as a player and Nash's decision making, regardless of how good a passer you are, not even John Stockton could create the NBA's best W-L team without the right materials, and that is what Nash had, leading to him having a breakthrough season. I mean bottom line is Iverson gets you points...alot more points, few people would hesitate to call him the single most dominant little man to ever play the pro game. Not taking anything away from Nash but statistically he is a terrible matchup for Iverson, Iverson creates a serious threat on both sides of the ball with uncanny scoring ability and quick defensive hands, you are downright foolish if you think that steals have no coralation to how good a defender a player is. I understand your arguement in the Bruce Bowen concept, the intangibles blah blah, but as far as downright stopping a player one on one, Nash and AI are comparable but when u add the overwhelming odds in Iverson's favor via the fact that he is fucking 3rd all time in spg makes it a little hard to believe that you could say they are both subpar, if Nash had AI's numbers it would have EVERYTHING to do with defensive abillity but its okay, if you are telling me that creating turnovers is not one of the most valuable keys in a defensive player then who am i to grant you and escape from delusion?
Aisle, u get plus 1 million cool points for showing intelligence (nearly)unmatched by anyone in this forum let alone this site, but there is really no way that you can tell me in a sensible way that Nash is a better player than Iverson, llike i said, ONE year in his entire career Nash has put up numbers that would undeniably put him in the top 5 gaurds in the league, Iverson is consistently in that category, he has shown he can win single handedly, not only does he score, he scores alot, and using this year's playoffs as proof he can get assists, and the steals are never in debate. Steve Nash has never and never will be a player who can average 30+ ppg and 10 apg, i honestly do not see how you could consider this a valid arguement. "Nash gets his team involved" okay...but considering Iverson is a combo gaurd its hard to even pin down his ability as a playmaker without scoring, especially when he has no help, right now Iverson is a better player then Nash, and when its all done there will be no question of whether or not Iverson is better then Nash. Like i said Iverson is a top 20 player all time, im not sure top 50 even has room for Nash, we're not dealing with an intangible sport, almost every key category is documented, and on paper Iverson cannot be touched by the likes of Nash.
"To say that NASH, needed the help, well that's just stupid. He lead the league in assists last season" With HELP, no need to check the stats, im sure the names are familiar, Dirk, Michael Finley, Stackhouse only a slightly less talented group of players then on the Suns.
Trust that i understand that "you cant measure the intangibles of steve nash" but you are putting that ahead of the TANGIBLES of Iverson, Nash's bread and butter, his assists, and unselfishness with the ball doesnt even register in the top ten players of all time in apg or total assists, Iverson is top 3 in two of his most prized abillities, stealing and scoring...
Again Aisle man i have a lot of respect for you but aside from personal preference i dont at all see how it is possible to from a logical standpoint say that Nash is better, or even that close to being as good as Iverson, 1luv.
Last edited by Prince Escobar; June 18th, 2005 at 08:22 AM
Laying face down in the mainstream.Po.Ethics.
Please stop bringing points per game into the equation. HE SHOOTS MORE THAN ANYBODY IN THE LEAGUE. Nash was the entire reason the Suns made it, and got as far as they did in the playoffs. They maybe could've got the 8th seed or something, but they wouldn't have won all of those games. They wouldn't have the best record. Nash was shooting over 50 percent from the field, it just happens that Iverson has twice the FG attempts of Nash.
As long as the Iverson era in Philly has gone on, their supporting cast is always overshadowed by Allen Iverson. This guy has a lot of good young talent on his team, he just needs to be a little more unselfish with the ball and not take so many terrible shots. For some reason he feels like he is the only person on the court. The sixers have year in and year out been one of the worst ball movement teams in the league. That's mostly due to Allen Iverson and his inability to consistently get his teammates involved in the offense.
If the only thing you care about are stats, and not the big picture, that's fine with me. Statistically Iverson has been and always will be the better player. But I could care less about stats and what the hell they've done over their career. If I'm an owner and I have the choice of all the PG's in the league, I'll take Nash in a heartbeat. It's not a bias, it's just that Nash can take your team farther than Iverson can. Period. Nash was often playing in the shadows of the several stars on Dallas's roster. Boom, he leaves for Phoenix and is announced the MVP when it's all said and done. And no he wasn't the MVP because of his stats, it was because of his intangibles. You can't honestly say Allen Iverson is a hands down better point guard. You mention his scoring stats, well Nash shot 50 percent from the field. You mention the steals, what does that equate to during a game? 2 points if you're lucky?
Like I said, statistically Iverson has the edge. As far as helping his team win I'll take Nash. It's winning or stats, I'll take the wins, thank you very much.
Michael Finley vs. Robert Horry
[YOUTUBE]XEx2T1NLsqw[/YOUTUBE]
Finley
Rip Hamilton vs. Dwyane Wade
"Statistically Iverson has been and always will be the better player. "
Thank you.
D Wade
Larry Johnson vs Robert Horry
Laying face down in the mainstream.Po.Ethics.
Lebron James vs. T-Mac
lebron
lerbon vs nash
Let The Pen Bleed So My Wrists Don't
Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist
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