Canada's Dope.

[Bounce]

I I take no offense becuase basically you just proved my point. The micheal moore issue, you said:

So yes, he's for sure an entertaining writer, and such, but his opinons, facts, intellegence, and words are being used, listened to and demonstrated in politics today. as quoted by canuk!

^ Ok now, where are the facts? He has not provided anything other than conspiracy theories. He was shut up when the white house produced Bushs' pay records. Then those that served with him, in his squadron started to make phone calls, and send letters verifing his time served. There was not fact in that case, yet it was painted all over the news.

You my friend have just proved the disconnect in the media with mainstream America. Case proven: media bias from the left!

Why is no one calling for Keary to defend his idiotic display in 1971, when asked what would pulling our troops out of Vietnam cost the anit-communist sect in Vietnam? No one is asking him the hard questions because he is thier boy. The leftist media will not allow that! Can't you guy's see that? The man went on record and said "The 1000 to 2000 political figures that might be harmed in doing so, should just be allowed assylum in the US!" What kind of moron would stand behind that statement post tour in Vietnam? That by far is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard roll off the lips of a presidentual canidate! My daughter who is seven can give you a better rationalization than that. I guess Keary should tell that to the hundreds of thousands of boat people forced to flee, and millions killed in Loas and Cambodia fleeing the Communist onslught! I could never vote for someone who made such an error. If he was at the helms of this country such an error could cost us our nation! Yet in the news is the Presidents alleged and erroneous AWOL status! You will see the issue I brought up here come into light very soon. Please people you are talking to someone who knows a thing or two past what the left has impressioned our minds with!

So I think I have said enough here, but good job at proving my point!

Yes the big issue is intellegence, just as it was in london, yet in London Mr Blair had a formal appology from those who scrutinized his intell. Yet do we see the same here, I doubt the president will get an appolgy!

In the latter of your post, you qouted rumsfiled, which is by far a god indication as to what the communtiy is up against. We were tasked well before the media was involved, and under cetain circumstances the data we collect often comes at the price of lost lives. The community is doing thier best to provide a decent picture of the worlds regimes, yet not only our intell was in question. The intell from over 28 seperate countries also reflect what was offered up in ours. Who's to say it is correct, who's to say it is not? It's ultimalty our leaders position to make those determinations, not the public or it's citzenry! Were we supposed to releigh on the UN for support? I mean they have Syria head the wepaons council and lybia heads the human rights council, is that not alarming to you? If not then you need look at these countries track records. Are they better suited to decide whether the US has the authority and legal grounds to wage such a war? Hell no!

Canuk don't get me wrong, I admire your passion, and am certain you will see thru the facade of the left. As I myself was once blind to the situation, then I began to investigate. As I am in the national secuirty loop, I am informed way beyond the average citizen. Yet very little I hear in closed door briefings, are complelty hidden from the public. You can find the information, you just have to research it out.

The truth of the matter is: There is more evidence in existance that these weapons did exist and even less that they were destroyed. So if the possiblity is greater that they exist than do not, then why is our presidents decsion being attack. It's because the left will use any tactic to regain office, increase the size of government, increase the taxes we pay and ultimitly secularize our republic into a socialist society. I for one am against communism in the slightest of forms!

[Phate]

Concerning the original post, I can understand how people would think it's stupid to censor a show like the tonight show. However, every coutry has its groups that can cause problems if you piss them off and in Canada the Block Quebecois is one of these groups. Personally I don't think they should take it this seriously, still, if the one of your states had passed a vote to seperate from the rest of the country in the past decade you would probably be cautious about pissing them off too.

Even so, you could draw a comparison between this and the Janet Jackson superbowl uproar which resulted in delayed broadcasts for other evens. I don't agree with it, you may not agree with it, but some moral majority lobbyist have to be appeased. That pressure occurs in every country even though the majority of the population probably doesn't care, even quebec.

As far as Canada not giving America enough respect I would have to agree on a individual level a lot of Canadians go to far when talking about americans as ignorant.
And certainly i would have to say (sorry canuck) that anyone who thinks 911 was planned by Bush is just as ignorant than a Texan who thinks Canadians live in igloos.

However, Politically I would say that America is very well respected and Canada takes the defence issues very seriously. More so now that Paul Martin is in power. Yes, if we were located in another part of the world our military might have to be bigger, however, we are not. We are located in North America and we take part in NATO and UN operations when asked.

I can understand that some Americans felt a little betrayed because we didn't get involved in some conflicts such as Vietnam, or Iraq. But to be quite fair, a lot of Americans didn't agree with going to those wars either. We may not give the US the full respect for the service it does us militarily, however, I don't think Canada gets as much respect for all the wars where we have fought side by side with the US either.

Further, our country does not have unlimited military resources. While we may not have been in Iraq, we were and still are the commanding contingent of forces in Afganistan. The tens of thousands of troops we have commited there free'd up American commitments that helped the Iraq campaign. Certainly our military can be critisised for being underfundered and small in comparison to the US or Britain, but we do a lot more than most countries. How many troops did Mexico send to Iraq?

Anyways, this is a mute point because regardless of our ability to commit military forces, or whether we believed the intellegence materials, we are still allowed to disagree with the US on political decisions. It is our right to decide not to go to war just as it is the United States right to decide not to ratafy kyoto.

While I agree that anti-Bush sentiments in canada are a bit rampant you must remember that our relationship is a double edged sword. You can't say that Canada has a responcibility to do our share concerning North American sercurity issues and then turn around a tell us to butt out when it comes to decisions made by Bush which have a direct effect on these same security issues. Frankly, I think both Canadian and American citizens have taken this issue to far and the political reality is that our countries are still on very good terms when it comes to co-operations on foriegn policy matters.

I agree with Bounce that it's people like Michael Moore (or Rush Linbaugh on the right) that cause the most problems. While both are entertaning, they also spin facts and images to justify their points of view as much as those they condem for doing the so. And no doubt the leftist get more airplay the the right.

[Bounce]

Concerning the original post, I can understand how people would think it's stupid to censor a show like the tonight show. However, every coutry has its groups that can cause problems if you piss them off and in Canada the Block Quebecois is one of these groups. Personally I don't think they should take it this seriously, still, if the one of your states had passed a vote to seperate from the rest of the country in the past decade you would probably be cautious about pissing them off too.

Even so, you could draw a comparison between this and the Janet Jackson superbowl uproar which resulted in delayed broadcasts for other evens. I don't agree with it, you may not agree with it, but some moral majority lobbyist have to be appeased. That pressure occurs in every country even though the majority of the population probably doesn't care, even quebec.

As far as Canada not giving America enough respect I would have to agree on a individual level a lot of Canadians go to far when talking about americans as ignorant.
And certainly i would have to say (sorry canuck) that anyone who thinks 911 was planned by Bush is just as ignorant than a Texan who thinks Canadians live in igloos.

However, Politically I would say that America is very well respected and Canada takes the defence issues very seriously. More so now that Paul Martin is in power. Yes, if we were located in another part of the world our military might have to be bigger, however, we are not. We are located in North America and we take part in NATO and UN operations when asked.

I can understand that some Americans felt a little betrayed because we didn't get involved in some conflicts such as Vietnam, or Iraq. But to be quite fair, a lot of Americans didn't agree with going to those wars either. We may not give the US the full respect for the service it does us militarily, however, I don't think Canada gets as much respect for all the wars where we have fought side by side with the US either.

Further, our country does not have unlimited military resources. While we may not have been in Iraq, we were and still are the commanding contingent of forces in Afganistan. The tens of thousands of troops we have commited there free'd up American commitments that helped the Iraq campaign. Certainly our military can be critisised for being underfundered and small in comparison to the US or Britain, but we do a lot more than most countries. How many troops did Mexico send to Iraq?

Anyways, this is a mute point because regardless of our ability to commit military forces, or whether we believed the intellegence materials, we are still allowed to disagree with the US on political decisions. It is our right to decide not to go to war just as it is the United States right to decide not to ratafy kyoto.

While I agree that anti-Bush sentiments in canada are a bit rampant you must remember that our relationship is a double edged sword. You can't say that Canada has a responcibility to do our share concerning North American sercurity issues and then turn around a tell us to butt out when it comes to decisions made by Bush which have a direct effect on these same security issues. Frankly, I think both Canadian and American citizens have taken this issue to far and the political reality is that our countries are still on very good terms when it comes to co-operations on foriegn policy matters.

I agree with Bounce that it's people like Michael Moore (or Rush Linbaugh on the right) that cause the most problems. While both are entertaning, they also spin facts and images to justify their points of view as much as those they condem for doing the so. And no doubt the leftist get more airplay the the right.

^ Yet another very wise member who can see past the media bias. Great post and very accurate indeed. My hats off to you phate, I only wish more kids were as incitful as yourself.

[BIZ.VICIOUS]

Real Good Thread guys, I enjoy our dicussions Bounce ! Welcome in Phate!

OK, Here are some still un-answered Questions to Bush, regarding him serving his time:

1. How were you able to jump ahead of 500 other applicants to get into the Texas Air National Guard, thus guaranteeing you would not have to go to Vietnam? What calls did your father (who was then a United States Congressman representing Texas) make on your behalf for you to get this assignment?

2. Why were you grounded (not allowed to fly) after you either failed your physical or failed to take it in July 1972? Was there a reason you were afraid to take the physical? Or, did you take it and not pass it? If so, why didn't you pass it? Was it the urine test? The records show that, after the Guard spent years and lots of money training you to be a pilot, you never flew for the rest of your time in the Guard. Why?

3. Can you produce one person who can verify that he served with you in the Guard during the year that your Texas commanders said you did not show up? Why have you failed to bring forth anyone who served with you in the Guard while you were in Alabama? Why hasn't ONE SINGLE PERSON come forward?

4. Can you tell us what you did when you claim to have shown up in Alabama for Guard duty? What were your duties? You were grounded, so what did they have you do instead?

5. Where are the sign-up sheets that would have your name and service number on them for each weekend you showed up? Aaron Brown on CNN told us how, when he was in the reserves, he had to sign in each time he reported, and his guest from the Washington Post said, that's right, and there would be "four copies of that record" in the files of various agencies. Will you ask those agencies to release those records?

6. If you were in fact paid for that time when you apparently went AWOL, will you authorize the IRS to release your 1972-73 tax returns?

7. How did you get an honorable discharge? What strings were pulled? Who called who?



As retired Army Col. Dan Smith, a 26-year veteran, told the AP:

"Pay records don't mean anything except that you're in or you're out," said Smith. "It doesn't necessarily reflect what duty you've actually performed because pay records simply record your unit of assignment and then all of your pay and benefits per pay period."

[Bounce]

^ You do know that everthing on that list had previously been addressed by the white house press secratery. This is so old now, are you not paying atention to c-span, or white house press announcements. The time away from his post was to work on a campeign trail, it very comman for people in the reserves to be absent due to work. Also a pilot is given his physical around his birthdate every year, it's very common that if the pilot is not present during that time for his physical he is grounded until he takes that physical. Again if your a piolot or understand anything about the unit he served in, many pilots had the same thing happen. It's actually quite common. Now that whole issue about him joining the national gaurd just to avoid Veitnem is redicules and ever so ignorant. Everyone knows that any air wing or tacticle squadron in the reserves is highly lik;y to see combat action. Today we watch the reserves called up for duty in Iraq, and yes in Vietnam several reserve squadrons were called into action. It just so happens that the fighter Bush was assinged to, was not fit for bombing runs. His jet was used to intercept and scramble, chace down incomming arial threats, which is much more dangerous to operate and fly thana bomber. Many of the pilots in his squadron were killed in excercises here at home. So anyone who straps on one of those fighters is putting his life on the line for his country! The left is completly retarded and oblivious to this. His unit was key to arial defense here at home, if he had more time in the Bomber than the fighter he would have served in Vietnam. His expertise happened to be that of need here at home. No use in sending interceptors to Vietnam, as thier airforce did not require such measures. I have about one minute to post right now, but I'll be back with a more detailed depiction later. I just can believe you fall for this bullshit. One you're either very impressionalbe, or absolutly ignorant to the military and it's infulstructure. People are speaking about things to which they have no clue in hollywood. I'll post the reply that Lt Bushs' unit commander submitted to clear up what he called pure bs!

[Phate]

Personally I think the attack on his military record is pointless. Does it really matter how much time he spent in the reserves 30 years ago. The way I see it, unless he wasn't in the reserves at all what does it matter about the minor details. It's not like the experience in the reserves is imperative to his ability to be president.

Regardless, I don't understand why this is even an issue right now. If the Democrats were starved for issues to debate going into the election I could understand this kind of petty fingure pointing. But with the War in Iraq, War on Terrorism, the Economy, the Budget, Gay Marriage, etc. why even bother with such a minor allegation. Of course it's the kind of thing that will get media attention, but I don't think it's going to change the mind of bush supporters. Further, it was brought up during the first election and didn't make a difference then.

Of course the republicans have negative campaining out already as well. And I think it's just as useless. I suppose some voters by into this kind of thing. But I think the majority of undecided voters will vote for whoever has the best plan going forward. What happened in the past doesn't matter. If the Democrats can convince the people that they can manage the War in Iraq, the War on terrorism, economy, etc. better than the rebulicans can, then they will win.

Personally, I think it's a bit condecending to be attacking the conservative leader of the states on minor technicalities that happened 30 years ago while our own Liberal leader is currently under fire for a present scandal of a much larger importance. Correct me if i'm wrong but I think this is the kind of fingure pointing by Canadians that agravates americans such as bounce. Do US political issues effect Canada? Yes. Do Canadian political issues effect Canada much, much more that US political issues? Yes. If we want the best for Canada then we should be focusing on Canadian politics 90% of the time and US politics 10% of the time. Not the other way around.

Of course the same could be said for american forieng policy. That it should focus more internally before telling others what to do because the changes they make internally will have a much larger impact than those that are made internationally. Still, just because they do it doesn't me it's right for us to do it as well.

[BIZ.VICIOUS]

Correct me if i'm wrong but I think this is the kind of fingure pointing by Canadians that agravates americans such as bounce. Do US political issues effect Canada? Yes. Do Canadian political issues effect Canada much, much more that US political issues? Yes. If we want the best for Canada then we should be focusing on Canadian politics 90% of the time and US politics 10% of the time. Not the other way around.

I'm from Alberta, so Canadian Politics drive me fucking nutz. I don't even like to argue bout that. With the U.S. government, well my friend, if the U.S. doesn't buy Oil, Beef, Wheat, Lumber, Water, from us, we'll be fucked. plain and simple. So yes, American politics matter just as much. Alberta and B.C. make most the money for all of Canada, we share our wealth, and the east rips us off. So I choose to be involved in where the source of income is coming from......the U.S.

Plus, I'm what Bounce calls " Naive, or impressionable" I never said I believe the conspiracy theries, I just find them interesting. I do believe we are going to see some real major shit in the next 5 years.

['PercepTion']

the post in this thread are way to large to concentrate on...

anyway...Canada...W00t...W00t!!

[Bounce]

Plus, I'm what Bounce calls " Naive, or impressionable" I never said I believe the conspiracy theries, I just find them interesting.

You are correct there, I never said it's a horrible thing, unless you allow logic to be defied by emotion! It's a good thing to question such as you obviously do, but to know your wrong and still use the contorted info dfor your own political purpuses or to corupt others is just wrong. that's why I despise Micheal Moore and not those that he has mislead, or others like him (despise that is)...

[Bounce]

the post in this thread are way to large to concentrate on...

anyway...Canada...W00t...W00t!!

Yeah only us dumb asses would read and reply to such posts...

[BIZ.VICIOUS]

I really enjoy'd this thread.....

[High Class]

Canadians are pretty wack, and Ive been there... So Im not baseing it off of nothing... I watched the show, it was fuckin hilarious, LOL...

Anyone see the new chapelle show? Im Rick James Bitch... LOL

[BIZ.VICIOUS]

Americans are pretty wack, and Ive been there... So Im not baseing it off of nothing... I watched the show, it was fuckin hilarious, LOL...

Anyone see the new chapelle show? Im Rick James Bitch... LOL

['PercepTion']

Yeah only us dumb asses would read and reply to such posts...

as i stated...Canada..W00t...W00t...could be worse...could live in France, or even Northern ireland...no1 come here BTW, it's not worth it!!!

[High Class]

Americans are pretty wack, and Ive been there... So Im not baseing it off of nothing... I watched the show, it was fuckin hilarious, LOL...

Anyone see the new chapelle show? Im Rick James Bitch... LOL

^ Yet your dream is based off of an american creation... Good One buddy ^