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he was aight. Canibus freestyles were way iller. Big L’s too. i’ll post one from each when i get back to the pad.
This wasn’t Eminem’s prime. His prime was like ten minutes either side of the Marshal Mathers lp, after he’d stopped being a parody of Cage but before he started being a parody of himself.
canibus in his prime was a great lyricistQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hallows
same with big l
but they cant fuck with prime eminem.
well i never… by what merit do you vomit such sacrilege, you filthy heathen?
i demand reasoning and examples.
we can even go freestyle for freestyle for our chosen champions.
i’ll let Big L rest & just represent for Canibus since he & eminem were always being compared anyway.
let’s get it.
Personally I tried listening to Canibus and one of the first lines I caught was him bigging up Deepak Chopra who’s an egregious bullshitter who makes money off quasi-spiritual mumbo jumbo whilst throwing in the word ‘quantum’ in an attempt to add some scientific weight to what he says. That kind of soured me on Canibus straight away. He said ‘deep like Deepak Chopra’ and that seems true, he seems to use a similar trick of just referencing intelligent stuff in lieu of actually saying intelligent stuff himself. I just grabbed a line at random:
“Barely, the quickening happens in between
In the Elohim Lord Lizard King with the Ripper conditioning
Partitioning with the Fisher King eating chicken wings”
I love fisher king grail mythology, I like Elohim mythology, I adore a lot of fairly abstract rap, cut-up poetry and stuff like that. Canibus just rubs me the wrong way. I do like the production and his flow, and at least his lyrics are interesting.
Jack, what do you think of this guy’s lyricism? Chester P’s one of our UK legends from a group called Taskforce.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0bxNFo31ZE
“I find all my comforts in deep insecurities, spoil what’s beautiful looking for impurities,
Buried in the lies tryna live my life truthfully, I sail my ship alone and I’m still having mutinies”
etc.
Chester P is dope. the lyricism on that track was superb. reminds me of another UK favorite of mine, Lowkey. met him once, he’s top notch.
& lmao @ those Canibus lines. yeah he has a few lines that are similar, like his “i can complete in a minute what would take you a light year.” even though light years are a unit of measurement and distance as opposed to time lol. none of that shit matters to me though cuz along with those, he’s said shit like:
“Color is vibration, vibration is sound,
Sound resonates thru the mouth - check it out,
what I say vibrates no less than 9 ways,
South, South-East, West, South-West, East,
North, North-East, North-West,
And black and white images fade to gray sound waves,
Trap my adversaries like a mouse in a maze,
With a bewildering array of lyrical display,
The best of Bis, orbitally rearranged,
Monoatomic elements with adept intelligence,
The highest professorship, my English etiquette,
Compels me to not say it if I can't spell it bitch.”
gdamn that is some deft lyricism. eminem ain’t fuckin with the professor.
Ah wow yeah I fuck with those lyrics. What’s that track called? I should probably give him another try. I liked the energy of Can’s verse on his guest spot on Jedi Mind Tricks album (Jus Allah’s GOATed), which is what made me check his album out in the first place.
I’ve never listened to Lowkey, I know that dudes from the US tend to give him and Akala credit but I’m not really familiar with either of them yet. I tend more toward Canadian hiphop rather than US, but Aesop Rock’s American and my all time favourite. Some German hiphop is fire but I don’t understand much of what they’re saying.
What’s a good track to check out as an introduction to Lowkey?
You know M9 (aka Melanin 9) and Cyrus Malachi? These ones give me the chills every time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMXqdkrjeiw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTz9_j_ZvX0
the track is called Master Thesis. i’ma include another hard favorite, Poet Laureate II.. these are two of the illest tracks ever recorded.. straight lyrical porn. no diddy lol
https://youtu.be/5PrnxApprvs?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/vuXrT03lyGo?feature=shared
but yooo Jedi Mind Tricks.. and Army of the Pharaohs in general are legendary. one of the best artists/groups to do it.
& daaamn Akala is another beast i fuck with heavy. Aesop Rock is a dope mc to have as a favorite. good taste mang.. & it figures.. now that i think about it, i can see his influence on your style.
i never really been a fan of Canadian rap.. too similar to UK to me kinda, and plus drake smh. nigga ruined it for everyone up there lol.
here’s a dope Lowkey track… and a bonus track lol..
https://youtu.be/ToZUIdbgqjE?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/z4OI0GUCI_A?feature=shared
i’m bouta listen to those two tracks you linked when i get some quiet around me. never heard of them but i like the way you hypin em up.
eminem had more complex rhyme patterns then canibusQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hallows
in terms of the patterns and the amount of syllables he rhymed
so you’re basing your claim of mathers being better than Bis off of rappity rap syllables and patterns as opposed to content, delivery and overall objective lyricism & skill?
yeeaaahhhh, not feeling the criteria bro lol. eminem isn’t fucking with Canibus’ volume of lyricism at all, any day.
also, going by the hip hop vocabulary database, Canibus vastly outshines eminem in terms of actual vocabulary. so all those rhyming syllables and patterns aren’t really doing shit of you’re not actually saying anything creative or different.
Ok I admit I underrated Canibus, those tracks are fire. Proper unique style, and more substance to it than I remembered. Thanks for the education.
“I Liked Cool J but thought Steven J Gould was cooler”
Yooo ok I forgive him for bigging up Chopra now, Steven J Gould is cooler than Cool J. Ha I love that line. I’ve heard that track before a long time ago, forgot how good it was.
I didn’t realise that Stoupe from Jedi Mind Tricks produced for Canibus. Stoupe’s one of the most underrated hiphop producers imo. The JMT track Deer Hunter is one of my favourite hiphop beats, the way the brutality of the lyrics and Paz’s raw raspy delivery are contrasted with the haunting melodic music is fucking genius.
I’ll check the Lowkey tracks when I get time, thanks.
Canibus pretty much lost his credibility when he brought his notebook to a battle lmao what a clown
Historically I would say Can and Em were neck in neck with their freestyles. . Big L was a "could have been" story. As dope as he was, his FULL potential was cut short due to his untimely death and his volume of work as it exists today does not really hang with Eminem imo
Gotta be honest here, I always find these threads to be absolutely ridiculous as it always ends up being an argument primarily rooted in subjectivity.
Well, X rapper was dope because of Y and rarely does it evolve past the first comment. But I guess the insight into WHY users feel that way is an interesting read...
lose yourself was dope in terms of rhyme shcemes
i knew someone was gonna bring up that battle lmao. to me it doesn’t diminish the work he’s put in & the impact he’s had on not only rap in general but battle rap specifically. to me, the battle signified the changing in times between how niggas used to rap & how niggas rap now in a battle sense & displays why you will hardly ever see a “mainstream” battle lyric oriented rapper step on that scene who wasn’t raised within this newer era of battle rap, like Cassidy who’s a hybrid in my opinion, combining classic punchline flow with the newer live format of battling. i definitely don’t think em could hang with someone like Dizaster either.. Dizaster does eminem’s chaotic style better than he does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nohbody
in Canibus’ defense though, i had the opportunity to have a brief online discussion with him a few years back & i asked him about his arm being in a sling during the battle, cuz every time i wanna torture myself & rewatch that shit it really seems like something is off about dude as opposed to other live performances/cyphers i’ve seen him in. anyway, he didn’t really elaborate on the cause of the injury and definitely didn’t make any excuses, but he stated he had shoulder surgery for the first time & was under the influence of pain meds he’d never taken before, but didn’t want to cancel or postpone the battle, which i understand. in the end it seems to me that his impaired condition lead more to his defeat than anything else, cuz dude always puts out in performances. but ‘Bis being the emcee he is, i can see why he’d never try to cop out with that as an excuse, so he just kept it moving.
i’m mad cuz i had the convo saved somewhere & i been looking for it for days to no avail.
this is why i always demand thorough explanations from people who make certain claims. cuz if cats’re gonna blow smoke up some ass, they better have the appropriate sized fan for it lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celph Taut
i could write a phD dissertation about why Canibus shits on eminem lyrically. it’s that serious to me :laugh:
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yeah Lose Yourself is def top 20 greatest hip hop songs of all time. probly his best track besides Stan.Quote:
Originally Posted by pointproven
its right to bring the laptop up because its one of the biggest blunders in rap battle history and Canibus owns it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hallows
no other rapper would get a pass... he dont get one either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nohbody
Man, what a sad day and huge L for hip hop... in such an anticipated battle, too.
To this day I can't watch that part of it... it's like seeing you're fucking hero growing up get annihilated. Just wiped off the fucking face of the earth.
oh, i wasn’t saying we shouldn’t bring up the notebook. i’m just saying that for me, it has no bearing on what he’s done prior to the page flip heard around the world lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nohbody
i can’t disagree with your statement though. i’m just more forgiving than most, i suppose. especially given the context behind the fuck up. dude never should’ve took the battle in that condition so it really follows a long line of him making personal decisions that hurt his career in the aftermath.
my dude really is a casework in what not to do as an emcee lmao. to me it just makes him more human. the illest nigga that never was.
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100% this.. but i’m a glutton for punishment, i’ve watched that shit at least 5-7 times ugh. it’s like re-watching a gory fatal accident that you know is coming but can’t look away, only holding hope that this time the outcome will be different even though it’s entirely unrealistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celph Taut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hallows
It's funny how things come full circle.
I mean, the overwhelming consensus is that Diz annihilated Canibus, only to be beat himself when Cassidy - a retired punchline/battle rapper himself - returned.
Anyways, no real love lost in that battle. I'm glad it happened. Maybe not the way it did, but even if Canibus didn't have his predicament, I don't believe it would have been close... the notebook just made it more memorable, and probably did Dizaster a favor in that regard.
Canibus still had a legendary run in the 90's that can't be discounted. A fucking beast that easily has the top 5 or 10 diss track of all time.
I'm not gonna speculate on the story between him and Wyclef, or whatever happened between him and Em, but definitely a masterclass of raw talent to be some random kid from nowhere to blow up the way he did. He had more influence on me than any other rapper at the time and my old alias (Cannabarz) was obv a homage to him.
As much as I dramatize the event between him and Diz, I didn't expect much from him at that point. He was obviously past his prime and doing it for a paycheck, and KOTD was more than willing to leverage that for views. All parties involved benefitted, even if it ended in cringe.
rhyming does take skillQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hallows
and eminem does say creative shit imo.
yesss Cassidy most definitely got in that ass. i’m glad too, cuz although i like Dizaster, i felt the same way about him that i felt about Brock Lesnar when he broke Undertaker’s streak. pure revilement. plus Cassidy mentioned previously that Bis is one of his influences as an emcees, so i always looked at that battle like the samurai protege on a mission to slay the man who killed his master lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celph Taut
i agree that Diz may have gotten Bis about 7/10 times, but that opener “Those look like Tom Cruise mom shoes” runs through my head at least twice daily. straight troll bars lmaooo
i think eminem would get bodied the same exact way.
when it came to the Wyclef situation, Canibus was upset with the production. people were used to Canibus being this raw battle rappy dude but the beats and overall feel of the album left many people feeling like he was out of his element. personally i loved the album but Bis himself said that he felt Clef deliberately tried to undermined his album by making those types of beats for him to spit over & encouraging him to drop tracks that are wildly different than his expressed style. & of course, it wouldn’t be Canibus if he didn’t handle the situation with more tact. this was compounded by the fact that he thought Wyclef was taking LL’s side in the battle.
with eminem, the beef happened when some toxic inner circle idiots had convinced Bis that eminem was ghostwriting for LL, namely on the track “ripper strikes back” & it all came to a head when Bis sent eminem a song to hop on for the 2000 BC album. the song was “Phuk U” but allegedly eminem wasn’t feeling it so she sent it back, which offended Canibus.
the rest is history.
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no disputing your statements. rhyme does indeed take skill & eminem definitely says zany shit, along with being highly digestible. but even with those attributes going for him, he’d never be able to take Canibus on in a legit battle. dude is just too intelligent with the concepts. the deepest eminem goes with his concepts is talking some emotional shit about his kid or his upbringing.Quote:
Originally Posted by pointproven