what is slant rhyming i have heard
of the term
but i dont know what it is.
can anybody explain to me what it is ?
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what is slant rhyming i have heard
of the term
but i dont know what it is.
can anybody explain to me what it is ?
sure. a slant rhyme is a rhyme that sounds like the word it’s being rhymes with, without actually rhyming. it just sounds similar phonetically.
example:
went to dinner with at her folks’, but should’ve passed the date
the mashed potates were bland & had an aftertaste
her father was bothered & hollered “but the bastard ate!”
i dashed with haste back home so i could masturbate
in the 2 bars above, passed the date, mashed potates, aftertaste, bastard ate, dashed with haste & masturbate are all paired for the rhyme because they sound similar, but in reality they don’t exactly rhyme perfectly. same with father, bothered & hollered. all sound similar phonetically but don’t exactly rhyme.
a perfect rhyme, or near enough to it rather, would be something like:
i’ve reached the latitude where niggas need to show me some gratitude
i’ll splatter dudes across they avenue if they have a rude attitude
here, latitude, gratitude & attitude are perfect rhymes while splatter dudes, avenue & have a rude are slant rhymes.
do these examples make sense?
yesQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hallows
so would this be a slant rhyme to you ?
mad pill
can grin
mad pill/can grin? sadly no. there isn’t a rhyme anywhere in those words. the slant has to at least sound similar in cadence.
Slant rhyming is just posting regular bars but in italics.
Lmaooooo technically correct.
Edit: oops disregard
i thought cadence has something to do with flow not rhyming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hallows
it can refer to both. think of alliteration. the sounds have to be similar. where are you from? i’m speaking as a dude with an american accent. i understand that different accents can produce different sounding slant rhymes.
Jack explained it pretty well but just to add to it and give you a tool for reference....Quote:
Originally Posted by pointproven
Exact rhymes for "senseless" are listed as: defenceless, defenseless, expenseless, offenceless, offenseless, pretenceless, pretenseless
https://www.rhymezone.com/r/rhyme.cg...&org2=l&org3=y
Slant rhymes are, unless I'm mistaken, often referred to as "near rhymes" which you can find a list of here:
https://www.rhymezone.com/r/rhyme.cg...=nry&loc=nonry
Things like "centres" or "genders" which aren't exact rhymes but, as Jack said, rhyme phonetically.
mad pill & can grin both have the "ah-ih" aspect but the ending "L" and "N" in pill and grin are what prevent it from passing off as a near or slant rhyme.
So "I bone bitches senseless, throat fuck your mum so hard that your sister wretches" is acceptable as a slant rhyme
whereas "I bone bitches senseless, I throat fuck your mum into the fifth dimension" is pushing it a bit. If it was "fifth dimensions" with it having the "s" at the end I think that would make it borderline.
Check the rhyme cypher here it's packed with examples of slant rhymes:
http://rapbattles.com/forum/showthre...19#post8994519
same im from usaQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hallows
i think mad rhymes with can because they both have the same vowel sound.
and ill rhymes with grin because they have the same vowel sound
- - - Updated - - -
both pill and grin have the same vowel soundQuote:
Originally Posted by Bag Mandela
I used to dislike slant rhymes in actual songs; it shows a lack of linguistic finesse. But if you've ever freestyled, you'll find out that this is actually the way to bridge the gap to other ideas than the very narrow list of actual rhymes any given word has. And because of this status it has in freestyle rap, it actually has it's own aesthetic criteria; e.g. a slant rhyme that's somehow very far off from the actual rhyme can be even more impressive because it's so hard to find that rhyme in the back of your mind. So it's actually more original. And I feel like in battle rap where multisyllable rhyme structures are so common because there's no other rhythmic element to keep interest, slant rhymes are way more accepted and even encouraged. Cuz e.g. if you're rhyming a 14 syllable word like supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, there's never gonna be an actual rhyme. And also, all the most natural rhymes will have been used and reused a million times, so you need to come up with something else. But there always has to be a balance, ofc. I don't know about e.g. the UK, but some Danish rappers barely rhyme at all nowadays as if the whole idea of rhyming is even passé, lol.
Hence the part that says "mad pill & can grin both have the "ah-ih" aspect but the ending "L" and "N" in pill and grin are what prevent it from passing off as a near or slant rhyme."Quote:
Originally Posted by pointproven
^ Imo those are slant rhymes. If they had the same endings, i.e., mad pill and cad grill or can grin and man pin, it would just be actual rhymes. What matters are the vowel sounds, more or less exclusively.
In your other example you had bitches senseless > sister wretches > fifth dimension. What would you call fifth dimension if not a slant rhyme? The second syllable is actually closer to the vowel sound of "bit-CHES" in "fifth DI" than in "sis-TER", whereas the last syllable is closer in "wret-CHES" than in "men-SION".
There are no hard definitions of this stuff, as far as I know. So it's just a matter of degree. Mad pill and can grin is a bit of a stretch, but it's all about the context. And I would define slant rhyme pretty much from vowel sounds alone.
Interesting, I was basing my description on the assumption slant rhymes and near rhymes were synonymous but perhaps it is in fact a step further away from exact rhymes, IE Exact > Near > Slant
It would be logical to categorize phonetic rhymes which don't fit into the near rhymes category as something else. If this is to be known as slant rhymes then "mad pill" & "can grin" would be an ideal example.
Ah nevermind - just seen this on wikipedia, it seems to group slant, near, half & lazy rhymes as the same thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfec...20vice%20versa.
I'd conclude that slant rhymes have a spectrum starting at very close to an exact rhyme & ending with phonetics only, as with "Can grin" & "Bad pill".
Yeah, I didn't know the actual term slant rhyme, I just went with what you guys seemed to use it as. I would also just say near rhyme. But sources like wikipedia and rhymezone aren't really that credible vs. actual battle rappers, hehe.
Btw I don't quite get what you guys mean with "phonetic rhymes". Phonetics just means the study of the sounds of language, i.e. everything that can be notated via Indian Pale Ale a.k.a. the International Phonetic Alphabet; so all rhymes are actually phonetic, so "phonetic rhyme" is redundant (/pleonastic).
In old days in poetry and whatnot, ppl used to rhyme way more on the page than through the sound. So maybe that's what you are hinting at? When the actual letters align, even if the sound does not. That way of rhyming definitely has it's charm, because it shows a grasp of grammar and a literary sensibility. It's hard for me to think of an example in English right now, but there are many in Danish. The only one that comes to mind, which is an actual rhyme, though, but which I think is beautiful, is one I did with "ideal man" and "pineal gland", because the internal letters are actually the same in ideal and pineal, even if something could have rhymed just as well with double e instead of ea, for instance. But yeah, probably not the best example, since it's an actual rhyme, both orthographically and phonetically. I guess I would call the other ones orthographic rhymes, actually. But maybe it's more of a Danish thing..?
Yeah ‘phonetic rhyming’ sounds like a tautology because rhyming is necessarily phonetic, but I guess it’s used here to denote perfect rhymes as opposed to slant rhymes.
Huh coincidence, yesterday I had a conversation with my mum about the pronunciation of the word ‘symmetry’ in Blake’s ‘The Tyger’.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaman
“Tyger, tyger, burning bright / In the forests of the night, / What immortal hand or eye / Could frame thy fearful symmetry?“
I was wondering whether it was supposed to be pronounced to rhyme with ‘eye’, but apparently not, I think William Blake was just trolling. (Actually I guess the pronunciation of the word ‘symmetry’ has changed since it was written, but now it’s usually recited with the modern pronunciation so it doesn’t rhyme anymore).
Edit to add: I did actually post earlier in the thread to say similarly to Shaman, but then I deleted it because I wasn’t certain. I equate slant rhymes with assonance, so based largely off of vowel sound placement. I initially thought the can grin / mad pill example was technically a slant rhyme, but now I’m not sure. Wikipedia seemed to indicate that it isn’t.
Yeah, precisely! I actually thought of looking up some Blake to prove my point, but didn't bother. I'm not sure if all old examples like that was because it used to rhyme. Because it's still used today, even though we don't have the rhyme. I think, as I indicated, it was because there was a bigger focus on the written word than for instance in rap, which is all audial. So I think there was just a culture by poets of doing this to make things rhyme, kind of like we slant rhyme today.
And don't trust wikipedia, Virb.. Can grin/mad pill is obviously a slant rhyme, you can see it right there with your own eyes. It's obviously either a slant rhyme or not a rhyme at all. Some will claim that grin/pill doesn't rhyme, which it doesnt, but it's all about context. Especially if there's some gravitational semantic content to make up for the lacking perfection of the rhyme.
Yeah, definitely down to context. Perfect rhymes in rap can come across a bit Dr Seuss whilst imperfect rhymes can be pretty swagged out (think MF DOOM’s slant rhyme style in particular, sometimes his are slightly off and all the more pleasing for it, not sure why it works so well).
I mean, much as I’d be interested to hear a definitive answer it doesn’t really matter whether we say assonance is or isn’t the same thing as slant rhyming. Either way it’s a great tool for developing flow / rap cadence. I find that some bars just sound better than others and it’s not immediately clear why, and it usually comes down to assonance. Sometimes ‘wordy’ is used as a criticism and imo it’s not saying that the lines are necessarily too long, it’s saying that there isn’t enough assonance (or internal rhymes) to carry it off,
I think slant rhyming is the broader category where assonance (vowel rhymes) and alliteration (consonant rhymes) are subcategories of the same thing. But yeah, the more slanted it becomes, the more it's just about vowels. When I wrote lines like super-cali-fragi-listic-expi-ali-docious / Luke he jacked a Harrier on Dagobah with Yoda, I just focused on hitting certain vowels in the end, where it's mostly the fact that it's a meaningful thematic entity that binds it together. Doom is a good example on the swagger of slant rhyming that I mentioned in my first post, which I think is basically derived from freestyle or non-written rap.
I also think you're right about long phrases needing a lot of internal rhymes (even if heavily slanted or purely assonantic (?)) to be carried off. A lot of modern battle rap kind of annoys me because there are so few rhymes. Sometimes they spit like 2 long ass goddamn setups lines with no rhymes and it's like all the original musicality of the genre is gone.. Hadn't thought about it in terms of lacking assonance or subtle inner rhymes, but I think it makes sense.
i knew i was correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaman
Isnt that consonance, not alliteration? The counterpart to assonance (repetition of vowel sounds) is consonance (repetition of consonant sounds).Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaman
I think alliteration could be considered the counterpart to rhyme, in the sense that alliterative words start with the same sound whereas rhyming words finish with the same sound.
See in the above quote where it says ‘subsequent sounds’. Multisyllabic rhymes make this a bit more complicated as we’re no longer dealing with individual words and their endings so much as syllable strings. The division of separate words within those syllable strings doesn’t matter beyond its effect on the placement of stressed syllables.Quote:
Originally Posted by sevencircumstances.com
So yeah I think the ‘mad pill / can grin’ example isn’t any kind of rhyme as the ending sounds are totally different, but it does have assonance.Quote:
Originally Posted by sevencircumstances.com
I just used alliteration to denote reoccuring consonants in any part of the word, as opposed to assonance with reocurring vowels. But I guess that was a bit sloppy of me.
The Oxford Reference definition of assonance is: "The correspondence or rhyming of one word with another in the accented and following vowels, but not in the consonants, as e.g. in Old French versification."
And of consonance: "Is the repetition of end or medial consonants, as in ‘blank’ and ‘think’, or ‘The curfew tolls the knell of parting day’ (Thomas Gray's ‘Elegy’)."
So what I meant was assonance (vowel rhymes) and consonance (consonant rhymes). And again, they are both subdivisions of rhyming. A perfect rhyme would be one where the first letter differs and all the rest are exactly the same, whereas the more they start to differ, the more slanted the rhyme becomes, which is a gradual scale. Mad pill / can grin has assonance, which is a form of rhyme between vowels, but not between consonants. In the example Bag gave earlier, "fifth dimension" is a slant rhyme on "bitches senseless", mainly because of the vowel sounds (the assonance), but actually if we added the "s" at the end, so it became "fifth dimensions" it starts to rhyme with the original word even more. So a slant rhyme can make use of both assonance of consonance.
I would for instance also call words that rhyme mainly in the consonants but not in the vowels slant rhymes. This is a big kind of swaggalicious rhyme when done right. It would be something like "king" and "dung". (Although this example sucks; I have the examples I'm thinking of in Danish, but you get the point). This is basically an imperfect rhyme, i.e. a slant rhyme. But of course we are mostly used to the vowels rhyming cuz it just sounds better.
But basically, slant rhymes or near rhymes or whatever you want to call it is anything that doesn't rhyme with the original word perfectly (which is almost any kind of rhyme in rap, including multisyllabic rhymes). There are no clear cut boundaries after that, so it basically becomes a matter of taste whether something rhymes or not. Imo mad pill / can grin rhymes in the right situation (like the Yoda rhyme I just mentioned). Only the vowels rhyme, but that's usually enough in a battle rap context. If I was writing a celibratory song for a confirmation, I wouldn't use that as a rhyme, because the standards are higher for perfect Dr. Seuss type rhymes in that genre.