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^very good points, I just wanted to let you know this stated out as a national debate, but for some reason it grew to world affairs. Which is ok with me, but I am more concerned with the topic, which relates to our [the people], relationship with the gov't. Which keeps it's sheep blind so they may do their dirty deeds...
u people just don't get how much danger the US is really in.
^ Bravo! You (phate) understand exactly why it is we approached the UN, instead of assuming it's because we are losing or scared or could not handle the heat in the kitchen so to speak.
I too thought the UN should have been involved, but as the UN wasted time, the elites in Iraq were making negotiations with sirria, not only for asylum but for more troops and pasasge. We knew this ahead of time, and the UN just sat by and allowed those elite to escape into other countires. So you tellme, does the President of the US, sit back and allow the UN time, meaning the leaders escape while thier look a likes pretend to be working with us? Hell no, GWB knew the american people or the world community was not going to stand for the escape of those in charge. He had to act accordingly. Remember the decapitation strike, that was a well planned and thought out tactic to end the War in one swift move, by killing the leaders only. If Bush was the evil war monger the liberal press has made him seem, why would he go to such troubles to end the conflict in one blow. Do you see now why most of the bashin in the media and on RB, is so in correct. I wish the UN had acted with us, for the very reasons you stated above. I now think the UN is a useless, spinless entity of the liberal left in this world. They wanted to get everyone to agree before taking action, sheep like! What good is the UN, if they are going to allow dictators like Sadaam to play them like fools. I am glad the president and prime, stood up to the UN and the world. It shows they believed in something more meaningful and significant than thier popularity and re-election. Now that is courages leadership at its best. How can you argue otherwise? Thier entire political career were put in jepordy due to world opinion, they stood their ground and did not falter. If it was greed or money or popularity they wanted, they would have never went to war under such conditions. They did what they felt was right for the people of thier counties and for the free world. Regardless if it cost them thier re-election or careers. Now that is what I consider a leader. Not some weak, fragile suit who only cares to get himself re-elected and futher his career. The more the liberal left speaks out the more they prove my points...
hmm... isnt this the same plot as Starwars... very interesting huh... ;)
WTF? Satrwars does not deserve to be contaminated with what's going on today, at least they had Jedi, we only have Kofi Anan.
i guess u didnt pay attention very well. u sed to read the books. the whole story reflects this situation almost perfectly.
While I agree the UN needs drastic reform, I still wonder if the war in Iraq would be more succesful in the long term if they had been able to bring more people on board.
However, while I may disagree with how it was done, I must admit he did have the balls to do it. And while the execution of the plan was not perfect, well what plan can be, it was better than most. (Russia -> Afganistan).
My fear concerns the precident that has been set. Because while I trust the US/Britain to only go after military targets and to conduct an the occupation in a fairly just manner, I cannot say I have the same trust in other nations who may use the example set by the US/Britain to pursue similar foriegn policies of their own.
For example: Isreal is considering taking out Arafat. I don't want to get into an Isreal - Palestine debate here, but I just wanted to make the point that this might not even be in the realm of possible actions had the US/Britain gone through the UN.
I hope that the Iraqi people can settle their internal differences and justify the efforts of the coalittion. However, not every situation can be resolve through force because if the people are not up to the challenge of reform (Somalia - 'Black Hawk Down') then 5 years down the road Iraq may have become another theocricy like Iran, and all the efforts which have been made will have done nothing but enflame those segments of the Arab world who wish to see harm done to the west.
starwars lol...
http://www.ananova.com/images/news/s...ter369x500.jpg
germany would make a good Jaba the Hut.
@ phate
I admire your ability to look at the situation in that respect. You are so right about other nations adopting the same policy, that has always been a concern of my own. We can only hope the UN, has the intellectual capacity to see the same issue. It's up to them to change thier policy and be more active, until the offensive in Iraq, they were benign in nature, maybe now they will show thier grit. It's the only way to ensure our concerns are addressed head on. Ihave good feeling the UN, will see things in a new light, after the Bombing of thier facilty in Iraq. Prior to that, they felt as if the world did not see them as a threat. In the Arab world freedom is a threat, the UN was in Iraq promoting freedom, not occupation. Thier eye's have been opened for the first time in a long while. It's not the occupation the Arab world is fearing, it's the freedom. With freedom comes education and equlaity, that is very worriesome for some Arab leaders. I will leave it at that, please read into what I mean...
Quote:
Originally posted by bouncedoggydog
^ Bravo! You (phate) understand exactly why it is we approached the UN, instead of assuming it's because we are losing or scared or could not handle the heat in the kitchen so to speak.
I too thought the UN should have been involved, but as the UN wasted time, the elites in Iraq were making negotiations with sirria, not only for asylum but for more troops and pasasge. We knew this ahead of time, and the UN just sat by and allowed those elite to escape into other countires. So you tellme, does the President of the US, sit back and allow the UN time, meaning the leaders escape while thier look a likes pretend to be working with us? Hell no, GWB knew the american people or the world community was not going to stand for the escape of those in charge. He had to act accordingly. Remember the decapitation strike, that was a well planned and thought out tactic to end the War in one swift move, by killing the leaders only. If Bush was the evil war monger the liberal press has made him seem, why would he go to such troubles to end the conflict in one blow. Do you see now why most of the bashin in the media and on RB, is so in correct. I wish the UN had acted with us, for the very reasons you stated above. I now think the UN is a useless, spinless entity of the liberal left in this world. They wanted to get everyone to agree before taking action, sheep like! What good is the UN, if they are going to allow dictators like Sadaam to play them like fools. I am glad the president and prime, stood up to the UN and the world. It shows they believed in something more meaningful and significant than thier popularity and re-election. Now that is courages leadership at its best. How can you argue otherwise? Thier entire political career were put in jepordy due to world opinion, they stood their ground and did not falter. If it was greed or money or popularity they wanted, they would have never went to war under such conditions. They did what they felt was right for the people of thier counties and for the free world. Regardless if it cost them thier re-election or careers. Now that is what I consider a leader. Not some weak, fragile suit who only cares to get himself re-elected and futher his career. The more the liberal left speaks out the more they prove my points...
two things to start off..........one fuck arnold, bounce for governor of california! Two, Opey is right, this does smack a little of Star Wars.
As a senior in high school I interned for the major news publication in Arizona, the Arizona Republic, while there I learned two valuable facts that I hold dear even now. The first is the media often knows less than we give them credit for, once in a great while a story breaks that shocks and surprises us but really they just regurgitate what is told to them. The second is, regardless of political affiliation, 99% of all politicians are snakes, they will lie, cheat, and attempt to smooth talk their way out of any situation, and they always have a fall guy. This goes for every politician from your local councilman, all the way up to the President himself.
I liken the affair concerning the UN to a child who wants a piece of chocolate. They go and ask their mother knowing she is going to say no, once that happens they get it anyway, knowing full well there will be consequences later. I don't think the UN was dragging it's feet just to spite the US. Chief Inspector Glick said time and time again, WE NEED MORE TIME. I know you said that the WMD's were not the primary goal of the US bounce, but my point is that is what was fed to the media, along with the alleged connection to 9/11. The public was duped and their collective fear was used to push a political agenda. In my opinion that is wrong.
Also, you have stated that now that the conflict has turned sour, so to speak, the democratic left has now chosen to attack Bush on this front. You're right in one regard, where were they during the conflict it takes our Congress to declare war not just the President. If any front is taken against Bush in the upcoming election year I feel it should be one that addresses the failing economy, the ever increasing crime rate, poverty rate, unemployment, the fickleness of the stock market, and of course the ever growing health care crisis. A strong foriegn policy is needed, an even stronger domestic one is a bigger must.
for phate.........
The conflict concerning Yasser Arafat and the Palestenians is an old one. The road map to peace is another bad attempt in a long line of bad attempts. To be frank the conflict, in my opinion, will not be resolved diplomatically. One of the nations involved will eventually wipe the other out. Neither side will be happy until this happens. Yasser Arafat is part of the problem, killing him however will only lead to even more chaos and disorder. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees. The UN should step in and draw distinct lines through Gazaa and then strictly enforce them. Like a parent with two wayward children, " you stay on your side, and you stay on yours". This will not happen in our lifetime i fear.
to legend......
Foreign policy affects everyone. I am not going to call you a dumbass because you aren't one, you are a little misinformed. Take for example the steel industry, a couple of years ago a new steel tariff was passed raising the price to import and export steel. That means now it cost more to buy steel, which means steel plants have to pay more for it. They in turn raise their prices, manufacturers must raise their prices, and so on until it gets to you. Now when that nice new mall goes up in your neighborhood your taxes are higher. Eventually building slows and then jobs drop off. Companies are not producing as much and extra labor simply raise their cost. One of the most effective cost cutting tools, unfortunately is laying people off. So now taxes are higher, and more people are out of work. All because of one new tax. Imagine the hundreds of thousands of decisions that occur everyday, you don't know about them but indirectly, or maybe even directly they affect your lives and the people around you.
Opey........
This is star wars. The council just isn't listening and so we begin a war, which in reality could lead to a series of events that could change our entire world.
Final thought.......
The main problem in America is not the politicians, the taxes, the unemployment, the stock market, terrorism, war, none of things. The problem is latent apathy. To many people just don't care anymore, and they outnumber the ones who do. Some have the attitude of "its not my problem" when really it's everybodies. I also cannot stress enough the importance on voting, and not just in Presidential elections, or when a chance to legalize marijuana is on the ballot. Voting is something we fought long and hard to get, first the British, then ourselves (blacks women latinos), for us to simply not take advantage of it. For those who do not like the state of the union, by all means let the powers that be know it, VOTE! Then tell every one you know to vote, then tell them to tell every one they know to vote, and so on and so on until this country is showing active participation. It's easy to bitch and moan, it's more difficult to do something about it.
Quote:
Originally posted by prophiit
Final thought.......
The main problem in America is not the politicians, the taxes, the unemployment, the stock market, terrorism, war, none of things. The problem is latent apathy. To many people just don't care anymore, and they outnumber the ones who do. Some have the attitude of "its not my problem" when really it's everybodies. I also cannot stress enough the importance on voting, and not just in Presidential elections, or when a chance to legalize marijuana is on the ballot. Voting is something we fought long and hard to get, first the British, then ourselves (blacks women latinos), for us to simply not take advantage of it. For those who do not like the state of the union, by all means let the powers that be know it, VOTE! Then tell every one you know to vote, then tell them to tell every one they know to vote, and so on and so on until this country is showing active participation. It's easy to bitch and moan, it's more difficult to do something about it.
Good point, people only care about themselves, and whats in it for them. People only will do something if it benifits them in the end, people need to work to gether to solve problems that relate to everyone, like what prophit stated. Also, like prophit stated, we need to take charge of our right to vote, with the example above...
..resp..
Sighs...Dont get me started on America and the problems we have..
Ya prophit is right tho..Barely 50% of Americas legal voters actually vote
G. wiz. i challenge you to get started on america n its problems, thats what this threads for...
Bein An American....Means Bein Hated,Bein "The Best",Bein The First,Bein The Worst,Bein Free....Really I Wouldnt Know Wat It Means To Me...Bein An American.
I Kno Of Nothing Else
Sometimes I find it easy to say that I'm not proud to be an American, but i wouldn't go anywhere else.
Heres my contribution besides clownin B-Squared.
Countries are stupid things. I mean, they're good when it comes to keeping the peace with law and stuff, but when someone disagrees with someone else's form of The Status Quo, they decide to turn whatever peace existed into chaos. Thus, I maintain that countries are stupid things. They are an invisible line on the ground that further divides the human race, an invisible line that people are willing to die for.
Nationalism is a sham. Just because you live in America instead of Ghana, for example, doesn't make you any better or any worse. If someone from Ghana had something interesting to say, they wouldn't be heard because of where they're from. So taking pride in the fact that your country allows you to say what you want is just stupid. Chances are, nobody cares what you have to say anyways.
Having a thread about America is retarded. I Don't know why you'd waste your time with a government that would rather travel across the ocean to fight terrorism, rather than fighting it in their own streets.
But there's the invisible line again, see?
WerD
I'm not proud of my country,
I'm happy that i'm here rather than in 3rd world countries
But government is a sham,
its just a bunch of preppy posh people doin what they want
and fucking the countrie up in the process.
And monarchy what a waste of our fucking time and money.
^^Understatement, this thread has 15 pages of replies, and only is considered stupid by those who have no insight to share.
How can a thread which has so much content posted in it, be stupid. It's on a very involved and intetlectual level, althought some people posted stupid comments, the majority of the content here can not ba labeled stupid.
You don't know why we waste our time on a government that is busy fighting a War overseas? We have to care about our system of Government is we want to remain a free society. If we value anything from our childhood, or way of life, we need to spend time discusing ways to make imoprovements. If everyone had you lack of concern for the politics that shape thier future the US would be in much worse shape today. I can see things getting worse in the future if more of todays youth adopt your juvinille policy where our country is concerned. It's very alarming that people as bright as you, talented with skills in writting, and producing music, do not voice thier concerns for the countryin which they live. Right now you may say it does not afect you in any way, but I promise there will come a day it affects you and those you care for most adversly. I pray we do not reach that day, but as things are looking today, I can foreshadow that event, but it's up to people such as yourself to care enough to make a difference. When it hits home, you're going to wish people like myself and those contributing to this thread did more to make a difference.
You See Dogg, obviously you have not been affected by the damage this administration is doing. You have excuses to why theses things are happening to us. But they shouldn't be happening.
Do you know the gov't takes taxes out and unemployment check?
What kind of shit is that? It's not like your making a living out of that shit.
The gov't gives us just enough freedom to numb our senses. They say yeah your free to say whatever you want to say.
Okay one night I chose to say "fuck the police", and I got a supreme beatdown and jail time. Mind you I never said it directly to the police, he over heard me saing it.
That's not freedom
My girl was wrongfully accused when her SISTER drove her grandmothers car into a building. They said they supeona her to court & she didn't show. IN all actuallity, the time the guy who's serves the people their supeona, said he served her at home when she actually was at work. So he lied, they suspended her liscense based on that. So she had to hire a lawyer, and be scared, while driving while they sort this mess out. She got pulled over this morning for "disrespecting a stop sign", and went to jail. She swore she didn't run it, and the cop tried to flirt with her. She wasn't going for it, so he threw her in the clink.
That's not free
When you can get caught up in the system and it' s actually destroying your life, that shit is not freedom. The Canadian Politician in "Bowling for Columbine" said it best. "The American people pick on those [people]that can't defend themselves".
That ain't freedom man
You wanna know why people don't vote, cause that shit is a sham. That's why they are talking about getting rid of the electoral college.
They tell you vote for the people that have your ideas as a concern. It's evident we ain't changin nothin. We've been changing presidents for years, and the police still beatin' niggaz down. The prison system is big business, I just bailed a homie out a couple a weeks ago with $750, there were over a hundred people there waiting all day. And they tell you, you can't go anywhere. they got vending machines there to make dough off of that, they got parking meters you have to sneak and constantly feed, cause it takes 8-10 to gettem out of there. It only took him 2 1/2 hours to go in.
While he was in there, he said he talk to about 6 niggas who said the police planted some shit on them. They didn't have any bail money, no money for a lawyer, and they can't make any money while they in there, so their jobs went down in the drain, evicted out of there apt's. And they stay there for yearsa fighting cases.
I can't brag about the freedom in this country, knowing that any minute so cop can come along and ruin my life if he's having a bad day.
That's why I'm saying, they just string us along, and we have to do what they say...but we're free...
Only the rich are free, and republicans are for the rich, and it's pretty obvious. Their whole GRAND PLAN, fo rthe economy is give the money to the businesses, and tax breaks for the rich.
When bush gave us those checks, I was like "hey, my kind of president", but then I heard about the rich people was getting paid and they didn't even need it... at the same time people on welfare or people that didn't work got nothing...
What's wrong with that picture.
I don't even watch the news, I know it's slanted, you can't believe anything. During the 1st days they reported they were 50 miles outside of Baghdad, and they were truckin', a day passed, and they still hadn't reached baghdad. then the next day they were right in the middle of baghdad. ?!?!?
Amllio daillo got shot 48 times, and he was unarmed...freedom?
The officers were acquitted, they had done nothing wrong...in the courts eyes.
You see the conversation is "moot" to those that haven't experienced the injustices that go on back stage in America. The intricate predjudices that are brainwashed in the upper classes that help them sleep, and BELIEVE that they aren't prejudice against the lower class.
They make millions, while we can't afford to make millions. We can't afford to go to college, so we work at 2 minimum wage jobs and end up making $200 bi weekly. When Bush made the tax cut's I got $78 bucks back, A rich man (who was against Bush), reported he had gotten back over a 100 thou. he said I'm already rich you moron, but thanks :)
Who do you think needed that more
Iraq
or
poor people in America
Of course Clinton was briefed of this information, and it wasn't important, and it still is not important. It's been said a million times that this was an ELECTIVE war meaning, it wasn't necessary right now. We flew bombing sorties over there everyday, since the intial gulf war. Loosing them up for this...
It's the American way!
^ Do you even have a clue as to what your saying? I mean it, this is not a joke question. You are telling me Bush is responsible for the legal system, the justice system? Now I know you do not have the slightest clue, please leave that critique to someone ignroant. I am not! The legal system has been corrupted by the liberal left. They control the courts of this country and all fo the latest contraverstial issies in the news in that last few month, reflect that. The liberals control those portions of governement. From the over tuning of ther election in Cali, to the ACLU influence over our courts in Goergia. From the removal of the pslams in arizona to the, blocking of every Supreme court appointee with a religous background. It's demorilazation of a society at best, all fuled by the liberal left wing. I have making my case against them from that one. Bush did not do any of that!
You think I am some spoon feed well groomed suit, whith my head up my ass all these years. Dawg I am far from that, I have been affected first hand. I have been on the toher end of the police guna nd baton. I have had my freedom stripped from me for a significant amount of time. All I am saying is why fall down and fucken cry like a girl? I fouhgt my way out of the ghette, out of the SYSTEM, and into a positon of respect. Not by whinning or ebing a bitch, but by standing for what I belive, like a man should. Cops have done more wrong to me, than you know, and we can have this discusion out side of RB, like other here who know my story. I can give you a detailed account of my history, but only off RB. I am not in the position to air my dirty laundy for all to see, for reason you can imagine. I hold governemnt clearance's and have a very high level position in the national defense arena. Now if things are as you say, none of this would be possible. I know youre thinking, well than I am just luck and one in a million. I'll tell you right now, I thought the same thing, but you would be suprised at just how many of my counter parts have had similar experinces in their live. The only difference is what they did with thei life. The did not allow that crap to stop them, they pushed onward and upward. Just like me, and just like Im am asking all here to do. Don't let the corruption of the system drain the life out of you, cuz that's what they want. Hey if you are truely raised from the same resolve I was, then you do not run when things get hot, You stand and fight back like a man, you never give up or give in. Aply yoursame code and ethic from the hood in everything in life, and you will over come. I did! You may think I am some computer geek, or just talking bullshit, but you would be so wrong. I care about the people of this country, most importantly the youth, I know hoh easy it is to feel beat down, held back. That only makes it easier for a kid with that belief, that he will not suceed, to pick up a weapon and fall into thier trap. Not me, and not those who understand life is waht you make it. Just because they ehald you down, wrongfully accused, andf other bullshit they are know to do to keep us in line, that does not mean you should just give the fuck up. Hell no, don't give them the satisfaction. I am telling you, it's nice to laugh in the face off all those who said you will be nothing. From teachers to cops to lawyers to judges. I look at those bullshit ass cops, in their bullshit ass house and laugh at them, I make more money my first year, than they have after 10. They told me I would die in prison or the streets. Will I just might, but after they ate every one of thier viscious words. I know it is not easy, I lived it too. Honestly if I were to adopt you thinking, I would basically have to tell my daughter that she is a no body and will never be a nobody. She lives in a country where there is no freedom unless you are stinking rich. Hell no, you can tell you children that, but I am not. I am going to do all I can to ensure my daughter has a decent country and decent life. It's not a hate Bush topic, it's a lets make things better topic.
Antoher thing about your jiberish ove the refund check,s it was all based on how much you put in. Those who put little to nothing in, got litle to nothing back.Plain and simple, so you have no agruement again. It's so flemsly your every attempt to down Bush. But the picture you paint of our societies promlems are a real one, and very scary. It's your weakness at linking them all back to Bush, that is horendous.
One more thing, before you get embarassed by someone in the know, all the bombings in Iraq's UN backed no fly zones were because of thier hostile actions. They were not to fly in those areas, or 'paint' any of our aircraft in that region. We returned fire every time our planes were locked on to. If you were the pilot patroling that part of the word and a SAM site lock on you, what are you going to do? Bombs away, well there was a protocal, and in every incedent protocal was follwed except by the Iraqies following orders from thier leaders. If you are so against all these tax issue's and the squandoring of governemnt dollars, then you are fighting for the wrong side. You keep proving my points the more you post, and if yoo don't belive me just ask the people here. Legend, all your issues seem to me to be a by-product of those liberal politicians and thier liberal agenda. Why are you not seeing that. The President is a conservative, he is not a liberal. He does not belive in big government or more taxes. It is the very opposite, and you seem completly unaware of how the American political system or the government system works all together. I don't even need to respond to your comments because they prove my point without me even having to make one.
No disrepect, just trying to get you to understand where your problems are comming from. It's not Bush, unless you are just aginst the war. A wise man would look deeper into the issue, and I know you mean well, but I think you need to sort out your issues and apply some logic there. I am sure you wil see things in a another light, if you take the time to look closer..
"Bowling for Columbine" brings up alot of good ? on this matter, sugest seeing it if your serious on this matter, but Legend has good evidence on hs side of the story...
"They make millions, while we can't afford to make millions. We can't afford to go to college, so we work at 2 minimum wage jobs and end up making $200 bi weekly. When Bush made the tax cut's I got $78 bucks back, A rich man (who was against Bush), reported he had gotten back over a 100 thou. he said I'm already rich you moron, but thanks
Who do you think needed that more
Iraq
or
poor people in America"
very ture, why does every tax cut or payback from the goverment only apply mainly to the rich, they are the only one benifiting from it???
"Only the rich are free, and republicans are for the rich, and it's pretty obvious. Their whole GRAND PLAN, fo rthe economy is give the money to the businesses, and tax breaks for the rich.
When bush gave us those checks, I was like "hey, my kind of president", but then I heard about the rich people was getting paid and they didn't even need it... at the same time people on welfare or people that didn't work got nothing...
What's wrong with that picture. "
another good point. everything in this country revolves around the rich, while the working class, those who have 2 and 3 jobs get shit on by the rich, for instance, a richperson will disrespect a poorer working class person because they dont have as much money, but the working person doesnt have any money becuase the rich keep rippen them off, in major companies such as parker hanafen and dayco eastman, they are laying off over half their work force, making those who have not been layed off doin 5 times as much work, only so the CEO can save more money..
go figure...
I can see what you are saying. I know there are intellectual points, and I do believe government is a very important thing, but the US government just frustrates me.Quote:
Originally posted by bouncedoggydog
^^Understatement, this thread has 15 pages of replies, and only is considered stupid by those who have no insight to share.
How can a thread which has so much content posted in it, be stupid. It's on a very involved and intetlectual level, althought some people posted stupid comments, the majority of the content here can not ba labeled stupid.
You don't know why we waste our time on a government that is busy fighting a War overseas? We have to care about our system of Government is we want to remain a free society. If we value anything from our childhood, or way of life, we need to spend time discusing ways to make imoprovements. If everyone had you lack of concern for the politics that shape thier future the US would be in much worse shape today. I can see things getting worse in the future if more of todays youth adopt your juvinille policy where our country is concerned. It's very alarming that people as bright as you, talented with skills in writting, and producing music, do not voice thier concerns for the countryin which they live. Right now you may say it does not afect you in any way, but I promise there will come a day it affects you and those you care for most adversly. I pray we do not reach that day, but as things are looking today, I can foreshadow that event, but it's up to people such as yourself to care enough to make a difference. When it hits home, you're going to wish people like myself and those contributing to this thread did more to make a difference.
I'd just like to say, right off the bat, that I am a Canadian, so this is really none of my buisness. I am simply pointing out what I see.
The United States government does not have any control over, and therefore does not care about it's people. It will look at major corporations, and it will respect their opinions, but when it comes to a disabled homeless person, they turn a deaf ear to their pleas. Sure the have programs to help them get jobs and the like, but nobody will hire someone with no references and a disability. The shit don't work.
I say they don't have control because of the states themselves. They do not have have any Federal Laws. The only consistancy throughout the states are the basic laws that every country has (ie. Don't kill, steal, do drugs etc). Basically, the United States is like a whole bunch of countries living under one name and pooling their economy. That is a very generalized version, but let's face it, I don't know the specifics.
My problem with the war on terrorism is that they didn't even do anything positive. The didn't kill Osama Bin Laden. They caused mass chaos in Iraq. All they did was cause more pain and suffering that the dictators had done. And Canada gets shitted on because we didn't want to be a part of it.
Not only did we not want to, we weren't able to, because we're busy picking up the pieces in Afghanistan and Yugoslavia and everywhere else that America has shitted on.
I seem to be talking in ever diminishing circles until I disappear down my own mouthhole :)
I dislike being a bitter asshole, and I know I don't have all the facts, but this is just my viewpoint.
B squared you disappoint me with that response. I am not rich and I do not see the point as it was stated.
Once again about the tax return checks, they are based on what you put into the system. You can't expect to get back anymore of what you put in. If you are not working, then how can you get an INCOME tax refund. If you make 50,000 a year and recieve 5 percent back, it is still the same as someone who is making 500,000 a year who also recieves 5 percent back. Sure the 500,000 dollar a year guy gets more in return, it's called math. It's percentage of what you paid in taxes. Now if you are talking about something other than the refund, like the actual tax brackets, then that is a whole other arguement. One I would agree with most of you on. So please use that type of info, to get your point across, not nonsense. Please I understand what you guy's want to say here, but niether one of you have put it into intellegent terms. You keep defeating your arguements by the structure in which you write the post. I know the rich are treated differently but you guy's are not doing your cause any justice if you can't produce an arguement with any logic behind it. Deos anyone have any clue who has to the most money on average between the two political party officals today? Well it is not the Conservatives, that is for sure. The elite on the left control more money and power in this country than anyone else. They control our schools and our courts, so please get your head out of your ass and come correct. I want to hear a valid reference made from your side, I really do, I know of some, but I am waiting on one of you to touch upon it.
How many of the working class with two or three jobs, actually took high school serious and pursued a good college education, waited to have shildren and married. I know there are some, but the numbers are lopsided. I know those families that have money ensure thier desendants keep that money in the family. I know it is hard to word yourself out of poverty. It is hard, not impossible! Unlike those in the cast system, where born garbage man, and stay garbage man ideology is in place. Now that is fucked up in a major way. I was born poor, uneducated and helpless. Today, I am for from poor, far from uneducated and helpless please. I did not sit around blamming everything on Bush or the rich or this or that. I blammed myself and my parents. That waqs it. They did not know any better and I moved on. I will pass everything I can down to my daughter, so that she is one step ahead of me, and so on, until my family heritage is removed from the ghetto and takes it's place as a success in this society. It will happen, if I can make a difference in my daughters life, belive I already have...
I am not rich, I am not a CEO, yet, but I do understand that we are responsible for our situation. Even if we were a victim at some point in our life, we still have to push onward and upward. We can not just lie down and be burried. I could have given up, let the system and the society beat me down. Turn to drugs and live off the system. Leave my daughter and her mother to fend for themself, but if I was that way would any of you respect me. Hell no. If it was me telling you I give up, I am beat, knowing what kind of person I am. You would get pissed off at me, and tell me otherwise, justt as I have been trying to do for you here. I know it's hard, I know its corrupt and I know it seems impossible, but I also know first hand it can be done.
^^^NIGGAH PLEASE^^^^
Spare me that bullshit, We're talking about two different things at the same time, and your mixing them up to make me look like I don't know what's up.
The more bullshit you spit the more YOU prove my point!
First of all the thread is What does America mean to you?
We are talking about how free this country really is. Bush was brought into the convo, cause. he has contributed to the bigger gov't forming. YET you have an excuse for his stupid ass everytime something comes up! You say he is a conservative and is against bigger gov't. BULLSHIT! because he has created Homeland security. Now laws are being passed where police can pull anybody over, they can now legally tap your phone, or come in your crib if they want too. Ask them why and they'll say "uhhhhh we suspected him as being a terrorist"
You gotdamn right I'ma stand for what's right! But you know what? people who stand up for what's right, seemed to get taken out...notice that?
Look it depends on what kind of person you are, and the opportunities life gives you. If you are ambitious, and haven't been dealt that many blows you can make it. But if they plant a scale and a pound of weed in your car...your fucked...
You see the system is set-up to keep us down. Tell Opey, that he can make a living at a company that doesn't mind about his record. Most people hear you talkin that bull but if they don't know a way to come up, then they will stay down.
That's americas plan, the rich sit back and keep theri investment secrets, build companies, and those that aren't rich, work for them and get paid peanuts
oh yeah no disrespect
^ Now I can repsect that, because you are being totaly honest and not trying to prove a point but make your opinion known. Opinions are like assholes, everyon has one. It's not until they stink, does anyone notice... (not directed at understaement, just some humor).Quote:
Originally posted by understatement
I seem to be talking in ever diminishing circles until I disappear down my own mouthhole :)
I dislike being a bitter asshole, and I know I don't have all the facts, but this is just my viewpoint.
You see no positives to this recent war, but how are you looking at it. Like eveyone else who is not aware, not informed or just not in the know. I have listed many positives about this war, and why it was a necessary one. I will not revisted them, since they are in this thread and others like it. Botom line is, that if every family had thier own military planner running down the rpo's and con's more people would understand this already complex situation. I do not expect everyone to comprehen or even care, but when intellegent people start making ignorant claims, that really worries me. Not to say that anyone here is sutpid, but ignorance is simply not knowing. Stupidity is the inablitly to learn. There is a huge differnece there. I just try to give people more of the facts in order for them to make a better decision on where they stand.
About Canada cleaning up our mess in other regions of the world. We are the one putting our forces in the line of fire, we are the one dying to secure our freedoms and those of the world. If we did not, then who/ France, ha HAHAHA! If you guy's want no part of our wars, then why go play clean up, not because y9ou are compasionate about their country. Its more of a role your governement assumes to align yourself with America. You may not approve of out War, but at the same time you can not denounce your greatist ally. We share a boarder, and much more than that. Why is it that no Country will invade Canada or Mexico for that matter? No one will risk it because of a little thing I call home, the USA. If we relocated Mexico or Canada to somewhere in the Middle east or parts of Europe, would your flag still stand, can you be sure of that? I think not...
^I know it wouldn't.
What pisses me off is that the USA fucked up the lives of our cattle farmers by cancelling trade with them. One infected cow, which happened to be an American cow, was found in British Coloumbia. Herds were destroyed, and nobody came down with the disease. Yet The US of A-age decides to cancel the trade, "just in case". Seems more like a "Because you didn't shoot some iraqies". And the Cattle farmers starved.
The disadvantages of being co-dependant.
I will admit homeland security is the only big governemnt point you have made. It was needed even before Bush, and I believe unless we want to be like France, we need it. That is the only thing you have been correct on. I just happen to feel Homeland secuirty is needed.Quote:
Originally posted by MR. LEGEND
^^^NIGGAH PLEASE^^^^
Spare me that bullshit, We're talking about two different things at the same time, and your mixing them up to make me look like I don't know what's up.
The more bullshit you spit the more YOU prove my point!
First of all the thread is What does America mean to you?
We are talking about how free this country really is. Bush was brought into the convo, cause. he has contributed to the bigger gov't forming. YET you have an excuse for his stupid ass everytime something comes up! You say he is a conservative and is against bigger gov't. BULLSHIT! because he has created Homeland security. Now laws are being passed where police can pull anybody over, they can now legally tap your phone, or come in your crib if they want too. Ask them why and they'll say "uhhhhh we suspected him as being a terrorist"
You gotdamn right I'ma stand for what's right! But you know what? people who stand up for what's right, seemed to get taken out...notice that?
Look it depends on what kind of person you are, and the opportunities life gives you. If you are ambitious, and haven't been dealt that many blows you can make it. But if they plant a scale and a pound of weed in your car...your fucked...
You see the system is set-up to keep us down. Tell Opey, that he can make a living at a company that doesn't mind about his record. Most people hear you talkin that bull but if they don't know a way to come up, then they will stay down.
That's americas plan, the rich sit back and keep theri investment secrets, build companies, and those that aren't rich, work for them and get paid peanuts
oh yeah no disrespect
About the whole situation of planting weed and a scale. Like if I have never seen what cops do to get people to talk. Come on, I made it out the hood and so can everyone else. If someone is ignorant enough to allow a weed charge and planted scale ruin their life, then they are just idiots to begin with. I beat more trails due to technacalities than i care to speak of here. If you get the right people onyour side, their ignorance and corruption will show. I exposed corruption in local politics in my town back in high school, it caused a wave of change in that town. I can tell you now, that would be an obstical to me,(weed charge), but an ending blow, fuck no! Yiou just have to outsmart htese fools at thier own game, in general terms..
If they plant a scale and weed, your not fucked, it's fucked up, but youre not fucked. You just need to play chess with them and beat it. It can be done, even a murder charge can be beat, we all witnessed that on TV before. I have many mark on my record, and I still got the kind of career most would sell their own parents for. I was honest and I declared everything on my applications and secuirty papers. I was so damn good at what I did, it did not matter, they made exceptions for me. If you are not the best you can be, then I guess you will get passed over, but I was, and I got hired and cleared. I still have active invistigations on my background and it worries me, but the DOD understands these things. Or I would not have a JOB ever!!!!!
I am pursuing my own dreams, doing what I chose, and educating my daughter in the best possible way. All from a thugged out mexicano who has been in the system and part of the game since I can remember. I am not squicky clean, but I am not one to just give in. I can bitch all day about the Rich people and those with money, but it will seem hyprocritical when I myself am rich! Yes, I am going after that dream, not through Rap, but in business, so I guess you blame it on people like me, once I get there. Or you once you get a deal and blow up big like you aspire, are you going to think the same about your money? Shit people come into this country dirt poor, and in years of hard work they get Rich, are they too part of your hate. I just think that we can do positive things if we really try. I give everything I got no matter the task, all the time every time. Iguess that's why I have been sucessfull in my pursuit of education and means to support my family. I never gave it any less than everything I have.
So maybe I am wrong, we should teach our children that no matter how hard they work, they are still going to be lower class or less significant. Not me, not my daughter! She can be anyhting she works hard to achieve, no matter race creed or religion. That's what I raise her to belive, but your telling me I am wrong for that! Why?
You're damn right it wouldn't! I am not even sure if ours would, knowing the defense blows this country has endured.Quote:
Originally posted by understatement
^I know it wouldn't.
What pisses me off is that the USA fucked up the lives of our cattle farmers by cancelling trade with them. One infected cow, which happened to be an American cow, was found in British Coloumbia. Herds were destroyed, and nobody came down with the disease. Yet The US of A-age decides to cancel the trade, "just in case". Seems more like a "Because you didn't shoot some iraqies". And the Cattle farmers starved.
The disadvantages of being co-dependant.
Now you're getting somewhere with your last post, it's a very valid concern on your point. Quite frankly you may be right. I am not an expert in livestock trade or cattle ranching. I am aware of this cow you are speaking of. I just don't know how dangerous it could have been to our people. You might be right about your last few lines, but you did not even have to shoot or raise a weapon. We just wanted your political backing, I am sure our governemnts would have worked out a non active role for your country, as we did with many others. You just denounced us and our leaders, so maybe we did retaliate. I do not know. It's sad, but what worse it that fact that for now on our trade agreements may be impacted for years to come. In the day's of old, if you did not back the powers that be, the powers that be would eradicate you. If you stood against the roman, or british empires and went against their will, you would be crushed. I do not see how the US, can even be compared with those empires. We are a kind and caring people, we do not embrace war, but we are not going to sit around and wait until someone drops a nuke on us.
bounce, that was not directed twords you, i was just agreeing that he did have a bit of logic with his tsatement. i am not blaming bush for this, and was that in no way directed twords you...Quote:
Originally posted by bouncedoggydog
B squared you disappoint me with that response. I am not rich and I do not see the point as it was stated.
Originally posted by understatement
^I know it wouldn't.
What pisses me off is that the USA fucked up the lives of our cattle farmers by cancelling trade with them. One infected cow, which happened to be an American cow, was found in British Coloumbia. Herds were destroyed, and nobody came down with the disease. Yet The US of A-age decides to cancel the trade, "just in case". Seems more like a "Because you didn't shoot some iraqies". And the Cattle farmers starved.
whats with that, we in america have the same thing, in minesota montana and in one place in wisconsin also has cows infected with the disease...
You're missing the point. We're not the one who cancelled the trade agreement, the US did. You may have infected cows, but we shouldn't be the ones suffering for it.Quote:
Originally posted by B-squared
whats with that, we in america have the same thing, in minesota montana and in one place in wisconsin also has cows infected with the disease...
Yes, but you didn't go after the people with nukes, did you? North Korea have been openly making nukes, as well as other places, but you didn't touch them. You went for Iraq under the facade of Weapons Of Mass Destruction.Quote:
Originally posted by bouncedoggydog
In the day's of old, if you did not back the powers that be, the powers that be would eradicate you. If you stood against the roman, or british empires and went against their will, you would be crushed. I do not see how the US, can even be compared with those empires. We are a kind and caring people, we do not embrace war, but we are not going to sit around and wait until someone drops a nuke on us.
I know this topic is played out, so I'm not going to continue. What's done is done.
And back in tha days of old, America and Canada would nver have become independant in the first place ;)
if Britain were caring, then nobody would really care about independance back in the day
doesnt kno what im about to say has to do with this dicussion but fuck it, im cool like dat
well i was bored this weekend and i got io so i wanted to watch a movie, and slavery movies and all other history shits are just ass in my point of view, shits just garbage to watch, but this one...was a boy from our time goes back in da day, now that shit appealed to me, nigga had on jordans and shit, and he was doing what we probaly all would have done,
dont kno the point i was trying to make, but thanks for listenin............
[QUOTE]Originally posted by understatement
[B]
You're missing the point. We're not the one who cancelled the trade agreement, the US did. You may have infected cows, but we shouldn't be the ones suffering for it.
i know thats what i ment, we have the infected cows, but yet, your farmers are losing money and their profeshions becuse of it... but then again, even if we did trade beef with you, the US would make almost all of its own products...
i live in tha u.k so it doesn't bother me.............but freedom?yeah right ya cant drink till21............18 in tha u.k........ya in clubs by the time ya 15.........buzzin.....now thats freedom
we're talking beef trade, not dairy. Dairy isn't really a trade, is it?Quote:
Originally posted by B-squared [/b]
i know thats what i ment, we have the infected cows, but yet, your farmers are losing money and their profeshions becuse of it... but then again, even if we did trade dairy with you, the US would make almost all of its own products... [/B]
still tho, the US would handle almost all of its own beef. example thers a factory down the road from my house, makes and distributes beef to the entire mid-west, thats one factory, even if you could trade, it wouldnt do much...
i think that the average "american" is a fricken dumbass. they piss me off, glad i'm hawaiian and far away from true americans.
holla
^ Yet another one!
Ok buddy, I'ma be real with you. Me & you are the lucky ones, but it's amazing how quickly you forget the "little" people. How many of your friends made it? Because they didn't have your exact mind state then they deserve the bullshit that America deals out.Quote:
originally posted by bouncedoggydogg
I will admit homeland security is the only big governemnt point you have made. It was needed even before Bush, and I believe unless we want to be like France, we need it. That is the only thing you have been correct on. I just happen to feel Homeland secuirty is needed.
About the whole situation of planting weed and a scale. Like if I have never seen what cops do to get people to talk. Come on, I made it out the hood and so can everyone else. If someone is ignorant enough to allow a weed charge and planted scale ruin their life, then they are just idiots to begin with. I beat more trails due to technacalities than i care to speak of here. If you get the right people onyour side, their ignorance and corruption will show. I exposed corruption in local politics in my town back in high school, it caused a wave of change in that town. I can tell you now, that would be an obstical to me,(weed charge), but an ending blow, fuck no! Yiou just have to outsmart htese fools at thier own game, in general terms..
If they plant a scale and weed, your not fucked, it's fucked up, but youre not fucked. You just need to play chess with them and beat it. It can be done, even a murder charge can be beat, we all witnessed that on TV before. I have many mark on my record, and I still got the kind of career most would sell their own parents for. I was honest and I declared everything on my applications and secuirty papers. I was so damn good at what I did, it did not matter, they made exceptions for me. If you are not the best you can be, then I guess you will get passed over, but I was, and I got hired and cleared. I still have active invistigations on my background and it worries me, but the DOD understands these things. Or I would not have a JOB ever!!!!!
I am pursuing my own dreams, doing what I chose, and educating my daughter in the best possible way. All from a thugged out mexicano who has been in the system and part of the game since I can remember. I am not squicky clean, but I am not one to just give in. I can bitch all day about the Rich people and those with money, but it will seem hyprocritical when I myself am rich! Yes, I am going after that dream, not through Rap, but in business, so I guess you blame it on people like me, once I get there. Or you once you get a deal and blow up big like you aspire, are you going to think the same about your money? Shit people come into this country dirt poor, and in years of hard work they get Rich, are they too part of your hate. I just think that we can do positive things if we really try. I give everything I got no matter the task, all the time every time. Iguess that's why I have been sucessfull in my pursuit of education and means to support my family. I never gave it any less than everything I have.
So maybe I am wrong, we should teach our children that no matter how hard they work, they are still going to be lower class or less significant. Not me, not my daughter! She can be anyhting she works hard to achieve, no matter race creed or religion. That's what I raise her to belive, but your telling me I am wrong for that! Why?
Did you sell out? Are you content with how, it seems that your brothers crowd the prison system, and theirs don't. Yeah, your in the loop now, you got dough now, so you side with the people who tried to snuff you out, and say everybody just suck it in. That's really crab dude, I mean low.
I got some news for you buddy, the minute somethin comes up missing, your gonna get terminated...and your not gonna be rich anymore. That's america for you...
You see I found a way to elevate and help my people. I'm doing good. I work for a WELFARE TO WORK PROGRAM, run by blacks. We train people on how to work, that are 30 years old that never had a job in their life. WHY? Cause their momas momas momas moma never had a job, and that knowledge of going to work was never passed down. The aspect of being on time for something was never passed on. So we train people to make that transition, from the generational welfare recipients, to productive working in society. We turn people into truck drivers, CNA's, carpenters, medical billing. But noooooooooooo, you republicans don't care about that, you say ignorant shit like "they need to get up off there ass", and "my taxes pay, for them to lazy, and make babies all day". Yeah, clinton signed the Welfare reform act, which now limits welfare to 5 years, then your cut off. Good move! WHY? Cause he realized that people who don't know how to work, need to learn how to work, so Welfare to work programs were created. And although they are not guaranteed to do 100% placement, tell me what in life IS guaranteed 100%.
Also to stimulate economic growth & extra incentive, the companies who employ our clients get $10,000 in tax breaks
But noooooo Bush cut the our programs damn near in half, so he could fund his new branch in gov't, and his war. So now we can only serve a small amount of people, the economy is in the garbage.
I guess one of my points is, just cause you had the stuff in you to make it to the top, don't condemn that people that don't. Just cause you was fortunate to get bail, and have a lawyer to straighten out your biz, don't look down on others, cause it's niggaz that been in the county for over a year, still fighting cases.
There are people that don't know the first thing about how to operate a cpu mouse.
A lot of people don't know the law as well as you and I, but still they're getting illegal confessions, and innocent people get locked down...
So if your such a success story why don't you bring other people up with you, instead of siding with the powers that be?